An American in Canada

Send, I won't deny that I've been influenced by the ex-pats and the groups they formed in France during WWI.    Can you imagine the intellectual stimulation of meeting Fitzgerald, Stein or Hemingway?  

During the "Beatnik" period, I frequented a local book store owned by someone who could have passed intellectually for an ex-pat.   He had a huge bushy beard, and often could be found with an employee or two and some customers, deeply engaged in conversations about Joyce and his works as well as other literary challenges.   I loved that atmosphere.


NeedHelp, good analysis and rationale on politics.  Thanks for that posting.  I would add that over the past several months folks on the other side of the aisle have compromised threads with their own political positions and the threads had to be closed.


Karsten, I vaguely remember that sometime in the last few years you lost someone, a parent, I believe, and got a lot of good advice from posters.   I think that's a better position from which to view others here.   To the best of my recollection, we were here for you when you needed it.

I also think that NeedHelp makes some very good points in terms of perspective.   However, it's your choice and if you feel you need to "leave", I wish you well in whatever your life goals are.


NeedHelp, as to Agaves, I've been thinking about getting some as I'm going to revamp my garden this year, but will have to do some research on their ability to tolerate our changeable weather, which tomorrow will bring 50 degree temps when the norms would be 20s or 30s.   

That's another issue for Canadian living: how climate change will affect the various areas.  


BBS, you raise some very good points.  I had assumed that eventually I would apply for citizenship.    I'm not encouraged though that old folks aren't necessarily desired!  I would have thought that in some ways we would be, b/c we have retirement funds, and I'm assuming that I would still get SS.   In addition, we're past the age of employment and wouldn't be competing for good jobs with the native population.

I think right now the issue is crystallizing around health care.    So, clearly, I need to do some research, and really appreciate the links you found.     This may resolve some issues before I go any farther and I may end up just visiting.

It seems I have a lot to think about.    Moving isn't quite as easy as it may seem.   At least I don't have to make a decision right away, as I still have my father's house to dispose of, and a lot of work to do on my own house.  

Perhaps that's why the issue of moving is more appealing.   Finding contractors has become a real challenge, and I don't anticipate it to be any better as I age.   There's also the lack of stimulating intellectual opportunities, but I could find that by moving west to a college town.

Thanks for your insights.  I appreciate the time folks are taking to offer insights.

BBS,

Takes some research doesn’t it? Many people do leave our country and retire elsewhere. There is a lot to consider.

Do you visit Canada? Did you like it?

My spouse's mother was born in Toronto and was a Canadian citizen. So eligible under the family relationship rules. When checking into this, here is what I found on the Canadian government website for immigration:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada.html

Did you want to become a Canadian citizen? Canada has eligibility requirements that skew heavily towards younger, high skilled workers. If you are retired, unless you have quite a pile of money to invest in a Canadian business, they don't want you.

I suppose you can buy a home and live there as a non citizen, but accessing health care would be a problem. Medicare does not cover you in Canada. If you live in a US/Canada border area, you can return to the US for medical care under Medicare.

If you have newly moved to Canada and been there for a specific number of months, you may have access to limited health care, like some emergency services, but may need to pay bills out of pocket. You don't just get universal provincial coverage by just moving there as an alien resident.
https://immigration.findlaw.ca/article/can-non-citizens-get-free-health-care/

I'd get in touch with an immigration attorney who is very familiar with Canadian requirements. It's not easy to immigrate to Canada (or any other country for that matter,) if you are a senior citizen. That's why a lot of seniors who move from the US go to low cost areas like Mexico and Central America, since health care is inexpensive enough to pay out of pocket.

Karsten,

No one meant to offend anyone. Just passing comments on the man’s personality. That’s it.

It may not be of interest or relevance to you. We understand that but to many it is of relevance. You seem to be the only one that is upset.

You have not contributed to the topic we are discussing which is Canada. Your contribution on GA’s thread has only been criticism of us due to a very small portion of the conversation. We have all said more about Canada than what you are complaining about. So, I hope that puts into perspective how small of a discussion it was.

What were passing comments from us became a major objection for you. Not picking on you. I don’t have anything against anyone on this forum. We all relate to certain people more than others but I wish everyone well.

I absolutely respect that the topic does have relevance. No one asked for you to agree on anything. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

The comments were in line with the topic. Nothing was wildly out of context. People have become so overly sensitive and offended at just about everything. Just don’t visit that particular thread if it bothers you.

If you leave over a very short conversation that is sad but if that is your choice and I wish you well.

All of these women have been wonderful participants of aging forum and I thoroughly enjoy their input.

Oh, and if you want to talk about baseball, football, basketball or any other sport please do. Won’t bother me. People talk about whines, cooking, faith based topics, music, sports and all kinds of things. Hey, that’s what makes the world go around. I like people with various interests. Even if I would not personally find something relevant in my life I respect their viewpoint.

Send,

I have wanted to try Agave. Heard it’s good.

My husband loves Agave syrup.
It can get expensive.

GA,
Love your topic for this thread. I have experienced the same inquiry for myself, immigrating to Canada. I have also explored how retirees live in other countries and on islands. They are called ex-pats and some live in specific communities with other ex-pats.

When a relative traveled to a Carribean Island and got very sick from bites on her legs, I realized the old saying: The grass is always greener on the other side. Shortly thereafter, the relatives living there had to evacuate due to a major destructive storm, moving back home to the U.S.

The Houston Astros cheated by stealing signs in the World Series a couple years back. Its true, it really is, but we don't talk about it here as it is not relevant

When Gershun calls Trump some yellow headed doofus, its not relevant. Yes he does the same thing, But you are going down to the same level

I am leaving this forum, which is a shame as there are lots of good people here and good advice.

People just seem to insist to talk about the president, who yes is abrasive, and so did the Astros steal signs.

GA,

No apology needed. Thanks for offering. You weren’t offensive. Nor was Gershun. No blame on anyone. The discussion truly wasn’t even a ‘heavy’ political matter, just opinions on character and personality.

Besides it only was a couple of minor posts. No one went on and on and on. The topic mainly discussed was in regard to Canada and has been very interesting.

It would be so cool to make my own syrup! A lot more fun than collecting honey! Hahaha, the risk of bee stings! I like molasses as well. I’m not much on the flavor of refined white sugar. I love the other flavors. I love maple syrup and either almond or peanut butter in my oatmeal for breakfast.

I adore Cardinals too.

CWillie, Gershun, NeedHelp, SendHelp and anyone else I might have missed, on this alleged political issue:

I'm the one to apologize, if that's necessary.  

I don't think Send is to blame, but I applaud her courage and sense of honor in apologizing.  I extend the same to CWillie, Gershun and NeedHelp, and anyone else who's commented on this issue.

Nor do I think ANYONE else has been out of line, especially in observations on the character, public behavior, and/or vulgar language of ANYONE in a position of power, respect, and/or in a public forum.

To Karsten and others who find offense in selected comments, I did address behavior, friction and similar issues in my first post, and those are a fact of life, even observed in some of the online reports from other countries.    It was NOT my intent to produce more detailed discussions, and I don't think that any of those named above intended that either.

Nor were my remarks on what happens in November limited to political issues.   There are derivative issues on land use, the environment, health care and more which may turn on the election.   

Karsten. I understand that  you may have read into my initial references, or others' comments, a desire to segue into political issues.   That also was not my intent; I respect your and other's desires to avoid highly charged issues.   But I also feel that public behavior needs to meet certain standards of propriety, and that applies to everyone, from public officials to inebriated individuals in public places.   That's NOT political; it's a matter of decency.

I also think that this crosses the line into respect on ALL levels of threads and posts here.    Politics isn't the only topic on which responses segue from helpful into what I consider personal attacks.

I saw this happening in the last few weeks:  friction, hostility, criticism, unfounded conclusions, and what I thought were embarrassing and unhelpful comments.    Some of the comments were worse than some political observations.   Some behaviors go way beyond political issues and reflect an individual's character.

And that's just as unwelcome and inappropriate.

And now, it's back to maple syrup issues.   

NeedHelp, CWillie, Totham, and other syrup lovers:  do any of you have access to trees to make your own syrup?   My father grew up in a rural, farm type area.  The son of one of his long time neighbors grows maple trees, gathers the sap and makes his own syrup.  

I've always thought that would be exciting and fun, not to mention healthier as it wouldn't have high fructose corn syrup.   At one time I even though about adding maples to my garden.    But I did eventually become more realistic, well, just a little bit more realistic. 

I also grew buckwheat one year with the plans of grinding it into flour for pancakes, as they did with the grain they grew on his family's farm.  But the cardinals found a need before I had a chance.   One morning I found 12, yes, TWELVE cardinals in my buckwheat garden.

Since I like cardinals and enjoy hearing and seeing them, I decided to let them keep their special buckwheat garden.    No buckwheat flour for us that year, but there's always the next year....

I agree, Gershun. I don’t feel like your comments are out of line. It’s your opinion on his personality. Not necessarily a political discussion.

Karsten I would hazard to say that Trump leaves himself wide open for criticism when you consider the things he says about others. Making personal attacks on others is his M O .

My comments about him have nothing to do with politics just as most of the sexist, racist comments he makes on a regular basis have nothing to do with politics. In other words, he is fair game as far as I'm concerned. So I'm not going to apologize for what I say about him until he apologizes for the hurtful things he says.

Karsten and others.
Sorry to offend.
I do apologize for my ignorant attempts to make light of a very serious issue, and agree politics should be left out of AgingCare forums and conversations, because AC has asked us to.

cwille,

I love the flavor of maple. I would have loved your childhood snack!

cwillie, you may be right. The point is this is not the place to talk about it when we have people from different backgrounds. Lets focus on agingcare.

Karsten I wouldn't presume to opine on whether or not the policies of your president are good or bad but you can not deny the man has an incredibly abrasive personality. I've made it a point to try to NOT follow American news but his constant tweets ensure he remains the centre of attention, we can't tune it out even when we want to. My god even in Canada his name is in the headlines every.single.day.

I used to find comfort in coming to this site. Now I see a bunch of political diatribes and hatred of our President, which fine you can hate him, but take it somewhere else. There are some people here who for various reasons support the President.

I am, not going to go into why, that is not the purpose of this site.

NHWM, I have never bought any syrup that wasn't produced locally, and usually I pick it up at the sugar bush itself because I prefer darker, late season syrup that isn't commonly available in stores. When I was a kid mom sometimes used to give us maple syrup with bread and butter for dessert, it was considered a pantry staple.

Tothill,

Really interesting trees in your area. I just googled it. Says that your trees produce twice the amount of calcium and magnesium over the sugar maples elsewhere. Looks like the syrup is a bit different as well, unique flavor and delicious.

NHWM,

Where I live on Vancouver Island we have Broad Leaf Maple trees. Google them to see how huge they grow. In the past 15 years or so people have been tapping them. The syrup can be much darker than the syrup from Sugar Maples, but is delicious too.

We have some of the mildest weather in Canada here. It can get hot where I live in the summer but it is not humid or muggy. Winters are wet, similar to Seattle, but perhaps a bit warmer, here in the Cowichan Valley.

Okay, I have to bring this up. I have been to Vermont. I have not been to Canada. I would love to though.

I enjoyed visiting New England and of course, loved the maple syrup. My daughters grew up eating maple syrup from Vermont.

My husband makes the very best breakfast and the girls adored his pancakes on Saturday mornings. He only served pure maple syrup, never imitation syrup.

Anyway, my oldest daughter went to Canada and brought back some maple syrup for us. Yummy! Have any of the Canadians on this forum tried Vermont syrup? Do you prefer your syrup? I like both, no preference, really.

GA,

What a lovely neighbor you would be! Produce and a handmade quilt! Oh my gosh! I would love living next door to you!!!

I had a neighbor who loved baking bread. I love cooking but I have only baked bread once! Baking homemade bread is a true labor of love.

When my neighbor would send over her homemade bread I felt like I was receiving gold! Just being inside her home and inhaling her fabulous bread baking made me happy!

I would give her some of my homemade soup because she loved soup but hated cooking. Her thing was baking.

We were a good match as neighbors. She was much older and died several years back. I just loved her. She was so kind to me and she adored my children.

She had married when she was young. He mistreated her and she left him. She stayed married for three weeks! Hahaha. She was a character!

She said that she saved herself a lifetime of hell by not sticking around for more abuse from her husband. She was unusual for a woman of her generation. I truly loved her. I think of her often.

I have a feeling your neighbors would fall in love with you.

GA, this is a fun thread!

Golden,

As usual, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts. Wonderful detailed description of Canada. Now I really want to visit!

Golden, thanks for the insightful and helpful information.  I'm really pleased with  all the great responses I've gotten.  

I think it behooves me to do much more investigation, especially into the various areas.   While Montreal appeals to me because of the French culture, the ice storms, blizzards and lots of snow do not!

I think perhaps a smaller area, more rural and centrally located but still close to the big cities might be a better option.  

I haven't been to Windsor in years; the most recent trips were over a decade ago to the London airport for one of the best air shows I've experienced.  One aspect that impressed me was the cleanliness of the airport and the highways - not littered with garbage or junk or other things thrown out of windows.  

I'm still in a bit of shock at the medical system differences.   When my father was alive, we had a neurologist, podiatrist, cardiologist, urologist, dentist, infectious disease on occasion,  and geriatrician...I think.  In addition, a coumadin clinic was involved.   

I may have forgotten others.   In some ways it was good, in other ways it was not.   This is a very different concept so it takes some thought to  understand and accept it.  

I am in absolute shock over the reasonable cost of nursing home care.   Around 2018 I researched assisted living facilities in the event I could convince Dad to leave his own home (he wouldn't).   I don't recall for sure but the one that was most acceptable was either $6K or $7K monthly.  

It's no wonder that people need to seek Medicaid help with those kinds of prices.

I'm in SE Michigan, in the Metro area, which frequently is incorrectly referred to as Metro Detroit, with the inference that we're literally satellite suburbs of Detroit which is not the case except in the view of some Detroiters.   The suburbs are each entirely different, with wealthier ones on the West side.  

Some are ethnically populated; mine was Jewish and Orthodox after WWII; suburbs to the west are Jewish as well but more wealthy.  Further west suburbs are more Asian b/c the well run suburbs attract white collar employees of auto companies.   NW are the lakes areas, with multiple private and some public lakes throughout the area.  The county is quite diverse.  

Cities bordering the county in which Detroit is located are often referred to as ring cities.  Some want to be considered suburbs of Detroit; others don't, as Detroit doesn't have a positive image, something it's been battling for decades.  
I wouldn't want to live in a similar environment again. 

There are clusters of ethnicity as well, but there haven't been the problems that occur elsewhere.   At least we haven't as yet had any mass shootings that I know of!

There are so many factors I hadn't considered.   I think first I need to acquaint myself more with the different areas, and then with the different cultures.  

I hope I would be wanted... I could promise lots of produce from my garden, free quilts and some good home made bread if I was accepted!  Being able to garden freely would be just as important as medical support. 

The advice of everyone here is sincerely appreciated; I have so much more to think about.    Thank you all!

Good morning, GA. From my perspective, it is not a matter of whether Americans are wanted or not wanted - it depends on the person. I think we are pretty accepting of other cultures.

You mention establishing a new medical team. I have observed that in the US people go to many more specialists than we do here. I am 82 and have seen 2 types of specialists - obgyns for having some of my children, though that was not inevitable, and about 10 years ago an infectious disease specialist for a gut infection and I had to push my GP for that, For the most part people are dealt with by their GPs (general practitioners). I think the health care system here is better than in the US, and certainly more affordable. I read recently that in the US 4x the amount is spent on health care than is spent in Canada. Mother was in a state of the art, single room, NH for the last part of her life for less than $25,000 a year. Not that that is typical, but it is possible.

Montreal is a very interesting city. I lived there for a few years when I was a young adult. I can't speak to how it is now, but there were cultural sensitivities when I was there. I was born 60 miles west of Montreal in a small town and grew up there till me teens. The arts abound in that city - music, theatre, galleries and also great restaurants. I miss them all.

However, I would be careful about moving anywhere, and spend some in a place before making a permanent move. I don't know where you are in the US or what you are used to, but there are several places in Canada with mild climates. Mother lived in Windsor (Southern Ontario) for years and liked it. The climate is good there. Parts of BC, already mentioned in posts, are often chosen by seniors and I certainly understand why. There are lovely spots on the mainland and on Vancouver Island. I have friend on the island who loves it there. It is a wonderful place for gardening as is Southern Ontario. In Montreal, BTW, you can expect ice storms and blizzards in the winter and lots of snow. In Alberta, where I am, the climate is lovely in the summer, but there is little fall and spring, and too much winter in many places.

Cost of living varies to some extent with location and at present the US dollar works well to your advantage.

I lived in Britain for about 7 years when I was young (teen to early 20s). The experience of living in a different country than the one of my birth was enriching. As cw mentioned, we are different to Americans and I like the difference. We are one of the top 10 happiest nations in the world and one of the best countries to live in according to https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-best-countries-to-live-in-the-world.html. I think that is something to be proud of.

Please continue to share your thoughts and plans for your future. I wish you well in your pursuit for a better life.

ETA
Having read the posts added since I started mine, I would heed cw's comment "And in many ways Quebec is another country altogether." I agree, Last time (many years ago) I drove the highway between Montreal and Ottawa you could tell where the border between Quebec and Ontario was with your eyes closed, as there were no more potholes in the road on the Ontario side.
was
Re GPs I don't know if their training is better though I do know that that training of nurses here leaves our nurses in an advantageous position for employment in the states. But considering that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, we do seem to survive with our GPs pretty well.

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/Details/Health/life-expectancy.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
"Canada maintains its “B” grade and 6th-place ranking among 17 peer countries. The gap in life expectancy between Canada and the U.S. continues to widen; Canadians now live three years longer than Americans. Life expectancy is a good indicator of overall health in a country. "

Send, well, we know that sanctuary cities are viewed differently, absolutely necessary for some of us who think that we should help disadvantaged people of other nations, and to avoid political strife, I'll leave it at that, other than to opine that we're literally all immigrants, except perhaps for Native Americans, but I'm not current on American history before that period and believe there were others here before they were.

It should be noted though that my maternal family fled tyranny and genocide; one relative disappeared and was never heard from after seeking sanctuary outside of his native country.

Had America not been open to immigrants at that time, I might not be here today.   So I'm an ADAMANT supporter of sanctuary cities and accepting those in need of solace, comfort, food and sanctuary.

CWillie and Gershun,

Do GPs have to have extra training?   It sounds as if they're performing much broader functions than here, in my experience.    I've been to a few, taken Dad to more than a few, and found shortcomings in each.   One fiddled around trying to solve a problem, wasted time and eventually said he couldn't solve the issue and we needed to see a specialist.  In the meantime, a problem remained unresolved.

Another idiot, despite being advised Dad was taking Warfarin, prescribed a med for what he misdiagnosed in the first place.  The med was contraindicated with Warfarin; he never warned us of the need for increased monitoring, , and Dad ended up hemorrhaging and in the hospital.   That was really a close call, and I chided myself for not thinking to ask about contraindications, accepting that since I gave him a list of meds that he would read it.  

I've had experiences like that with literally every GP, and grew to view them in contempt.   

I did eventually find a good one, recommended by a top notch podiatrist.


We do have literally a mess of insurance carriers, individual qualifications (including addressing injuries) that are difficult to navigate.    A cousin had a difficult time finding coverage b/c of repeated, pre-existing skin cancer.  

Even the issue of pre-existing conditions raises issues.   Should a pre-existing condition like  cancer be considered on the same level as those arising from something like drug or alcohol abuse?  (I'm not saying they are; I don't know and am just offering a query).

There are so many options that it's difficult to navigate them; it's like being in a canoe or boat approaching multiple channels - which one to take?    I don't know how our system became so complex, but there are vested interests which benefit from it.   

It's interesting how something so basic can be so different in an alleged first-world country, which America is (now, at least).


Tothill, you raised some very pertinent points as well.    I hadn't even thought of expenses such as heat.   You wrote of having an oil furnace.   Most in my area have either gas or electric, so we have bills for both.   It's impossible to separate the electrical cost of heating from the cost of appliances though, so I can only judge by the cost of gas, which during the summer is about $10 - 15 but in the winter shoots up to around $100/monthly, although that would be lower if I had the funds to re-insulate the entire house.

Housing costs:  I definitely will do some online research.   I wouldn't mind living outside a city, and just being close enough for activities.   Montreal calls to me probably b/c of its French influence and some of the magnificent buildings I've seen in articles or on tv specials.

One aspect of American architecture I deplore are the slick, modern homes with little or "canned" personalization.  Victorians and log homes appeal to me.   I love the detail of Victorian architecture, or similarly decorative buildings such as I've seen in travelogues of Montreal.

I think in America the tech trend is now toward basic structures w/o lovely amenities,  and I think it reflects in other aspects of life as well.

So much to think about....

Should I stay,
Or should I go?

I know of someone who is going to need a sanctuary country. Lol.

It wasn't until I started reading on this forum and others that I really began to get a feel for the complexities of American style healthcare. Once you have status and are eligible for coverage in Canada you really don't ever have to think about what to do when you are ill; there are no deductibles, no co-pays, you just go to the doctor, urgent care, ER - wherever it is appropriate. There is much less division of care here, your GP is expected to handle everything and specialists are there to provide care that is more complex - for example from what I understand most women in the USA go to a gynecologist for routine women's health, here you usually only are referred to one when there are problems.

A caveat - administering medicare is a provincial responsibility so there are regional differences. And in many ways Quebec is another country altogether.

Wow!  I'm overwhelmed at the valuable information being provided.  I honestly hadn't even thought of some of the issues being raised, and they're valid, and critical.   The cost of utilities, housing, groceries...they weren't even on my mind.

I have a lot to think about, and now more questions to ask.

Gershun, I understand your position.   I'm P'M'ing you with some additions to your "description" of a certain individual.  

Tothill, very helpful insights which encouraged me to think a lot about any decision.

As to medical treatment, am I correct in understanding that I couldn't see a neurologist, cardiac or any other medical doctor w/o first being referred by a GP?   What do people do in the interim if they need treatemtn?

I'm wondering also about coverage, if there's no comparable Medicare.   Is every citizen covered (including immigrants) after a certain time?  There are no multiple choices of medical insurance coverage?

What happens in emergencies?   Can anyone avail themselves of emergency treatment if necessary?

Taxes...hadn't even thought of that.   And it's an important issue.

I have a lot of thinking, and rationalizing to do, but I'll be back, probably with more questions!

Send, you are welcome here. All except Trump that is. He can stay there and rot for all I care.🤗