Do you support or oppose artificial intelligence aiding in caring for the elderly?

humes,

Many would agree with you. A robot cannot give human interaction. They can fulfill some tasks but not replace a human in that regard. Thanks for your response.

A robot will never be able to go give the love, hugs and compassion a human being needs to survive. However, technology will go a long way in meeting patients needs for exercise, transport, memory, etc.

I agree 100 percent with GA, Riverdale. Please take steps to get him out! He should never be working on anyone’s mouth ever again.

I want you to tell everyone when he loses his license. I also agree that you have an extremely valid reason to sue.

My now deceased SIL sued her radiologist and hospital and won well over a million dollars. She was married to my youngest brother. She went for her mammogram and she did have a malignancy but the hospital failed to tell her about it. She was not a ‘sue happy’ type but she had a valid reason to sue. She was raising two young children and had to quit working when she discovered the cancer. She had a strong case and won.

She detected the tumor while bathing in the shower. It went into stage four. She had bone marrow transplant, both breasts removed and she opted to do breast reconstruction. She was very brave. She went through all of this alone because my brother had an affair while she was in treatment for cancer and divorced her so he could marry the woman he was having the affair with. He totally checked out during her illness.

Ironically, she fought the cancer and beat it, only to die later with lung cancer. She had been a smoker since she was 15.

Riverdale, after reading the events surrounding your root canal and resulting complications, I do, even though I rarely believe, that you do have a case for medical malpractice.

I can't imagine a competent dentist not providing anesthesia for a root canal, or something like an extraction.   They're challenging and painful.

But I would at least file a complaint with the state dental association, and get started on getting this guy out of business.   

You might also search online to see if there are other malpractice suits against him.   You might be surprised to find there are.

River,

Wow! I am flabbergasted by that dentist and the nurses. You just proved without a shadow of doubt that there are good and bad in ALL professions, right? That makes me furious! I’m so sorry you went through those experiences.

You are right. We learn to be grateful for the good things in our lives and that does become what is most important. I love MidKid as well. She has been such an incredible inspiration to me. She’s amazing! She’s much to modest to admit that but I can say it.

You are an inspiration for not being bitter about those things but I get it about not wanting people like that in the medical field.

I would never want someone to lose a job unjustly. I know that you wouldn’t either but some people don’t belong in their line of work and I was relieved when the nurse was fired. That dentist should lose his medical license.

NHWM, I am so sorry for all you have been through certainly with your mother and brothers. I am so glad you have your daughters and supporting husband.

Regarding my jaw I didn't want to bore anyone as I have mentioned it here but I went through a root canal and was not given any antibiotics. I am 63. 3 days later I woke to one side of my face completely swollen. Then I was put on a mild one and the endodontist worked on the area which was showing obvious infection. He installed a drain in that area. Nothing was changing. 2 days later he switched to a stronger antibiotic. He continued to work on the area for another week. It was extremely painful. Finally after a week he said the tooth had to be extracted. It was but the infection had spread and the 2 teeth next to it also had to be extracted. The oral surgeon kept me on the stronger antibiotic and then he also had to install another drain. A month later the area became swollen again. He went back in under anesthesia. When I came to he said the jaw had fractured. I was then sent to the dental college in my area. The top surgeon said he was admitting me within a couple of days. This had now entered into a medical issue rather than a dental one. Much dead bone had to be removed. I was in surgery for 3 hours. A plate and screws were put in in place of bone that was removed. I was on a PICC line for 6 weeks dealing with infections disease specialists. I am left with an indentation on one side,a lip that droops and alot of numbness. I recently came to find out that the mother of the woman who cuts my hair had root canal surgery by him and also was not prescribed antibiotics. She had to insist on them after hearing my story. If I eat anything but the softest of food I end up biting my lip as it gets in the way since it aligns now with remaining bottom teeth. Needless to say I would like this guy out of business

My two nurse stories. I had my first child at 24. I had never been around babies. After learning about the proper way to change diapers I did one night after nursing my daughter. The night nurse came in and upon hearing that I had changed her basically chastised me as they wanted to weigh her with a wet diaper. It was the middle of the night and I was exhausted. She had been a normal birth weight. My self now wishes I had said "dont you dare speak to me that way". Bad nurse story number 2. Now i am in my early 30's. I had just had emergency abdominal surgery as my intestines had become partially detached from each other. During the week i was hospitalized my period started again in the middle of the night. A nurse comes in and sees the blood on the bed and says"that is so disgusting". How did I allow myself to be spoken to that way. I just know both times I was very vulnerable and shocked I was being treated this way. For these times I wish I had the surveys.

I appreciate all you offer to this forum and hope you find solace with those that have come to know your story and keep you in their thoughts. There are so many here who have endured so much emotional pain. Your story and Mid's come to mind often although I know there are many others who endure so much with parents and less than stellar siblings. I just think all we can do is try to focus on the good we might have in our lives and commend ourselves for survival tactics. You certainly are a great example of that.

River and CM,

You both make good points. River, yeah I know what you mean about being younger and dealing with things. We don’t have the life experience behind us plus I was dealing with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with my fertility issues.

I went through three in vitro fertilization procedures that weren’t successful.

I had surgery that was one for the text books. Three specialists were consulted on my case and it was filmed so medical students could learn from it. I had endometriosis along with other complications.

We think it’s our God given right that we will be able to have children and end up feeling like damaged goods when we can’t have a baby. It’s really tough struggling with fertility issues.

CM,

Yeah, my husband was really upset with that nurse. She was standing behind me. It’s a long needle so it has to be injected in the hip. I’ve never weighed more than 105 lbs so I don’t have any fat on me. I feel needle sticks.

I felt the needle go into my hip. She was mad at me when I told her she was giving me too much medicine when she announced the dosage. She got offended that I questioned her then jabbed the needle into my hip. I was concerned but didn’t know it was life threatening until the doctor told me in his office.

Thank God the next morning when the doctor ordered more lab work my results had improved, otherwise he would have had to admit me in the hospital to try and treat it. He said that had only happened to one other patient and she nearly died.

I do want to say that I have the utmost respect for nurses and the work that they do. She was the only one in his office that treated me like that.

I was a long time patient, four years and the rest of the staff treated me very well. It was just that one nurse. She had a horrible attitude and personality. At least she did lose her job and couldn’t do that to anyone else.

We ended up adopting our first daughter. Then seven years later I got pregnant out of the blue. It was a horrible high risk pregnancy with more specialists and an emergency C section. I feel like both of my daughters are miracles.

River,

I like the comment my wise grandpa used to say, “Doctors bury their mistakes!”

Need, never mind fired. That nurse was lucky she wasn't prosecuted. To quote a delightful young Asian doctor explaining the point on '24 Hours in A&E' before he carried out an aspiration procedure: "I can't just stick a needle in a man's chest without his consent. That would be assault, and I could get arrested."

NHWM, that's a very sad wrong story with that nurse and of course she should have been held responsible and fired. I sometimes encounter doctors that I find less sympathetic and that can be hard to put in a survey. I had 2 unpleasant nurse stories decades ago but it was an attitude issue. I should have spoken up but was young,sick and or in a weakened state. I would never let myself to be spoken to that way now.

Tacy,

You’re right. In some cases, AI is very helpful and might be better than some physicians!

River,

It does make it awkward but sometimes we have to speak up. A nurse overdosed me with fertility drugs when I was younger and trying to start my family. I told her that I had never received that large of an amount of that drug which happened to be the strongest type of the drug. This nurse got down right nasty with me and told me that I had no right to question her. I asked her to please consult with my doctor.

That’s when I spoke up again and said, “Don’t tell me that I don’t have a right! That drug is being injected into my body!” Before I knew it she stuck the needle in my hip and off she went without consulting the doctor like I had requested.

Well, the next day I have my doctor calling me and telling me to bring my husband to his office with me for a talk. He refused telling me over the phone and insisted my husband be there for support.

He admitted that I had been overdosed. He apologized to me. He told me my ovaries were swollen tremendously due to the overdose. He said that my lab results were dangerously high and there was a possibility of me dying due to the overdose. It was scary.

Oh, the nurse. She was fired! So yeah, it is awkward but there are times that we have to speak up. Eh, there may be times that we are not sure what is the best way to handle it.

So sorry about your jaw. That’s a tough one. Oh man, fractured jaw. Not fun! Sounds like torture to me.

That statues here are 3 years
This all happened to me last summer. In a brief nutshell the endodontist caused my jaw to fracture with his choice of treatments

Tacy, I've never seen anything like the "scan and go" checkout at the local stores I frequent.

Riverdale, w/o knowing the issues of the doctor who worked on your jaw, don't forget that there are statutes of limitation that would apply to any potential legal action. 

NHWM, I agree about the doctor surveys. Would I really want to say what I found to be less than ideal when I would have to see that doctor again? Generally I have felt positive,some more than others except for the one who messed up my jaw but that is being saved for another time with legal help.

tacy,
at the va the first stop is always blood draw . labwork is done onsite and ready in about 45 minutes . the doc has become not much more than a ' case ' manager . more and more trained rn ' s are dispensing and managing meds and treatments .
ive been under the care of a world renowned liver doc from IU for several years -- ive never met him .
i think the old MD is becoming redundant and its just as well what with the ego many of them are known for .

CM, apparently the semi-effective automated checkouts we use are similar to, or from the same company, as the ones that you've seen, and that idiotic responses are de jour from these new "wonders."

Yours seem to be programmed for the same stupid, repetitive responses as ours, especially the "unexpected item" and "please place your item in the bagging area".

Pray tell, what else what I do with it?  (Well, if it's hard enough I might use it as a club to whack the check out module.)

The Kroger chain at least has one that asks before scanning is done whether or not our own bags will be used.   Brilliant!


Are you also experiencing commercials with younger people as the "stars"?   Sometimes they're even in the annoying, repetitive, ridiculous, baited commercials Big Pharma has been using to monopolize commercial time.

So, those who can afford their likely costly meds has to first convince a doctor to prescribe them (that part is conveniently omitted), then he/she can live a rewarding life and an apparent skill of proficiency in a variety of activities, ranging from shopping to aggressive sports.  

There's one though that stands out in contrast.   I don't remember what the product is, but it features a woman probably in her late 60s or 70s, dressed to go to the opera, and inferentially living a life just as full as any younger person.

Need, as if to make us all sob "what fresh h*ll is this???" one of our more up-market grocery chains ran a charity campaign that made the checkouts use celebrities' voices. If there's anything worse than being asked how many grocery bags you used, it's being asked that by some teenage t.v. idol you'd never watch on purpose.

But it must be different if you're under 21 :)

CM,

I don’t like those auto checkouts at grocery either. My husband and daughters like them. My niece loves it so when she is visiting I let her do it.

CM- that was funny and so remincent of most dealings with our self check out at various places.

NHWM-I will stick to the old paths and ways as much as possible. Can you imagine what a hug alone does for a lonely person, a robot could not give that same warm feeling to another, no matter how much it is programed to do. It cannot love and care. How horrible for those who already feel lonely and unloved, not to have human touch.
IMHO

If my battles with automated checkouts in supermarkets are anything to go by...

Please place your item in the bagging area.
I did, I already have.
Unexpected item in bagging area.
Unexpected? No it's not! You just told me to put it there!
Please remove your item.
Which one?
Please remove your item.
[removes items, words not suitable for family websites]
Please place your item in the bagging area.
[complies, ditto]
Calling for assistance.

... I do not relish trying to explain my flu-like symptoms to RoboDoc.

I recently heard about a robot going into a patient’s hospital room and spoke to him telling him that he would die. His family was livid! I can’t imagine this happening.

We pay expensive insurance to receive this kind of impersonal service. This is appalling!

Hey Cap,

What do you think of all of these follow up surveys? Every visit I have with my doc I get a survey with my opinion of the ‘care’ that I received.

they oughtta eliminate the doc and let us answer to the computer ourselves .
" dam , this guy needs some dope or pills or something " .

i look at it when you aint paying attention . Ha

yes cibel ,
im talking about your behind .

if they can digitally duplicate that cute little turd chopper on my current doc -- im IN .

As long as it’s good care, right? Hologram doctor, hmmmmm. What a visual that is, Cap!

ive no way of knowing how " AI " the va has become but its clear to me that computers are " calling the shots " up there . until the doc , nurse , or technician enters what the computer wants to know -- the entry gets kicked back .

one ( inaccesible ) wing way up in a top floor is dedicated to indiana university health . i suspect thats the brain center of the place .

doc could be a hologram and it would hardly matter .

GA,

I posted this question about AI because I have to admit it is fascinating to think about.

AI is amazing! Not perfect at this point but it can’t be discounted as a means to help in solving certain situations. Yes, there is a long ways to go before it can be fully functional and utilized.

Thanks for the book titles. I want to read those! Post back with the other title please.

Our children and grandchildren have lived in a world full of technology. Look at when we were kids. Geeeeez, so primitive in comparison to theirs. We went to the library. They have the internet at their fingertips!

Hahaha, can you imagine our kids using a rotary phone? Remember pay phones? My daddy always made sure I had a nickel in my purse for a pay phone when I left the house! I’m dating myself! Hahaha

NYDIL, I'm another ardent supporter of WP.   It doesn't use AI (to my knowledge)  but it's far more effective and user friendly than Word, because it anticipates how users will need to function with a top notch word processing program.  The "reveal codes" feature is absolutely imperative for anyone who does significant word processing.   

Word is a farce, backward, dysfunctional, definitely not user friendly, which is ironic given that it's a Microsoft creation.    Maybe the brains were focused elsewhere, probably on creating ability for MS to exploit users' online activities for ad purposes.   Word DEFINITELY needs an AI infusion!

Glad to see another WP aficionado!


On the issue of AI, my niece (in medical grad school) tells me that algorithms are used regularly for various issues in diagnosis and treatment, and supports the use of AI in specific applications.

This I can understand, and support, just as AI could be used for auto mechanics and vehicle problem diagnosis.    Where I draw the line is the demarcation from AI support and AI determination and action which could supercede human control.

I've recently read two AI fiction novels that address the possibility of AI functioning beyond its parameters and "running amok", b/c AI can "learn".    One was Origin, by Dan Brown, and the other was by another author whose works I read frequently, but right now can't remember his name or the title of the book. 

Both address AI achieving a "singularity", a theoretical (for now?) point at which AI advances to the point of making its own decisions, and can advance beyond human control.  

I've watched an excellent analysis of this as well as other AI uses in the 2 hour program aired on PBS recently:  In the Age of Artificial Intelligence.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/in-the-age-of-ai/ .  In my opinion, everyone should watch this, and more than once.

It's a 4 section documentary, with the final section being the most unsettling as it reflects the use by the Chinese of AI in monitoring citizens, including the use of key entry AI to determine when citizens leave their apartments/houses, and return.    What other data it collects is only a guess as the features were in Chinese.   That last segment was like watching one of the horror movies about machines taking over.

Notwithstanding that potential, I still wish AI could be put to better use, more adaptable, functional and programmable.

Oh, and BTW, Tesla's AI operated vehicle smashed into a police car recently.   Whether it was AI programming or an operator mistake in using the programming, I'm sure the police officer wasn't pleased to find his vehicle damaged by an artificial intelligence.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/09/tesla-on-autopilot-rear-ended-a-parked-police-car-on-the-highway.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tesla-hits-parked-california-police-vehicle-driver-blames-autopilot-n878481 (2018)

I can see AI dispensing medicines, but I'd still be concerned about selection of the right meds for the right person.    And I would assume that a person needs to program this function, so that's another concern:  people still make mistakes.

I understand that "robots" have been used in surgeries for more than a few years; this could be a real boon in operating rooms.    I believe that insulin pumps might have some aspect of AI, and that's certainly helpful in monitoring.

One of the aspects that needs to be seriously addressed in my opinion though is data separation so that AI doesn't have access to patient records to the point of a security breach.

And if AI could change adult Depends and similar underwear, I'm sure many caregivers would love it!