Well... Mom got kicked out of her nursing home. I'm in need of advice and comfort.

Lymie61 i could have not said my response better..thank you..sounds more like anger venting on her part then understanding theceffects of a,disease and not paying price for bad behavior. .thank you from one dedicated daughter to another

Nursing homes in my opinion are not trained well in the problems alt/dementia patients have. All i ever heard was about my mothers behavior. For heavens sake look up the symptons for the disease i would tell them. Do you think she would be there if she wasn't sick. She passed away in Jan 2017 and all they did was tell me to come and get her things. Cold hearted institutions.

DidgitalBanker it sounds like you have been through a lot in your life and I'm so sorry. While we all hear and interpret things based on out personal experience and I may have it all wrong, I have to say my understanding of ohmeowzer's situation/concerns is very different from yours. I don't believe she is talking about a mom who has always been abusive or abusive throughout her life, I think this is a symptom of her dementia and related to her disease either through the process itself or medication or both. Many elderly dementia and particularly Alzheimer's (but not exclusively) patients have uncontrollable outbursts, some like this woman are violent outbursts while others are verbally abusive and still othwrs are more emotional, less violent. There are many disease processes not just aging or dementia that cause uncontrollable behavior and believe me when it happens to patients who are not demented and aware of their actions it is very scary. They are not in control of their behavior, not "choosing" to behave this way or aware of the possible consequences. While you absolutely have a point about protecting yourself and family from harm as the caregiver, I can't imagine leaving my incapacitated, frightened mother to fend for herself or how frightening it would be as the patient to be left all alone by the people I love and trust in the hands of strangers. I think that's where ohmeowzer is too and my heart goes out to her feeling so helpless and watching her mom go through this.

Can she be given a medication check to see what is causing this acrimonious attitude or is it already too late as she is at the new facility?

Rather than use a nursing home, are there Assisted living/memory care apartments available? When I was given durable POA authority for two friends of mine, visited about 9 AL places to see what they were like, learn how much they cost and decide if it would be a good place for my friends. The one I found has proved to be perfect.
When the wife had some behavior issues, I was advised to take her to a geri-psych ward to find a medication that would calm here and make her more agreeable to work with. That took 3 1/2 weeks, but proved to be perfect. The place I found told me my friends would never had to leave, that they provide care to the very end, and they did that for the wife. They gave me advice as she continued to decline and when to start hospice. They continue to provide excellent care for her husband, who is in good physical health, but just can't remember a lot of things. A doctor visits him once a month and I take him to his eye doctor and dental appointments. Otherwise he is happy to stay there with his television and newspaper and walking down for meals 3 times a day with his new friends. I check periodically with the health care nurse for updates and they keep extensive records. For me, a nursing home is out of the question when I have found a place such as this. When I run out of his money, they agreed to take public financing--whatever that would amount to--once we have paid 18 months at the regular rate. We have paid now for 30 months and he has enough cash to last another 2-3 years. He is also a veteran having served during the Korean War and is eligible for those benefits in addition to social security, retirement benefits and his IRAs. I echo the suggestions of others--if you have a choice, why bother with a nursing home? Many other places do better. Best of luck to you on your dilemma.

ohmeowzer - How are things going? Is your mum settling into the new place? How are you?

As an abuse survivor, I can only advise you as a survivor not to take this woman into your home. If the nursing home she got kicked out of can't handle her, don't take her in! Just don't pick her up on move out day. They kicked her out for a reason, she's dangerous as you mentioned so don't take her in. Don't even show up at the nursing home to sign nothing, just leave them to deal with it. They agreed to take her in when they did and you paid them for this service. If she's kicked out, it means you no longer have to worry about the bill if you took responsibility, but don't shell out no money for the next placement. Let her insurance cover it along with any money and liquidated assets she may have. If I were you, I would just let the state take over and become her guardian if absolutely necessary. I hate guardianships because of the very serious downfalls and problems people have had but in cases like yours, guardianship is absolutely necessary. It takes a very special kind of person to be able to handle someone like this and it makes you wonder if your mom may actually have end-stage Alzheimer's. This stage is actually the violent stage and you don't want to risk your safety or the safety of your family (especially if you have kids) being around her. Just wash your hands of her and let the state deal with it. That's what we pay taxes for, so let the state do their job. When you pay your taxes, remember part of your taxes includes state and local taxes. You pay taxes for a reason, there are services covered that many people don't even know about select whatever programs are available kick in and take care of this problem for you. One thing to remember is it's her fault she got herself kicked out for her own behavior. She can blame herself she got herself kicked out just like any other tenant. If she's going to a bad place, oh well! She got herself into this mess, now let her get herself out.  had she behaved herself she would've still been in a good place. If you can't handle being in a good place, of course you're kicked out and the next placement may not be so nice as what you're describing of the next nursing home. Not your problem. She's an adult and she's being treated like an adult and facing adult consequences for adult misbehavior. She made her bed, let her sleep in it. Sometimes there are just some of those problems you just can't do anything to solve because it's out of your hands and beyond your control. She's in control of her behavior, let her face the music. 

A little secret I learned about my abusive parents. Abusive people go through cycles of being nice for a short time and then return to being nasty. This is an endless vicious cycle that will never quit and there's nothing you can do. Stopping the vicious cycle is between them and God.  You're not responsible for her behavior and you can't fix this and spare her from the consequences. Doing so will only enable her further because rewarding bad behavior actually tells her it's OK when really it's not. You may want the best care for your mom, but if she won't work with her care team then she's just going to have to face whatever comes because it's her fault she got herself into this mess. Call it a form of landing yourself in jail/prison. You act out in the community bad enough you go to jail. If the crime is bad enough, you go to the big house called prison and the worst nursing home is actually a form of some type of jail  if you think about it. No one wants to see their love ones go to jail so I understand you not wanting to see your mom go to a bad nursing home. Again, not your problem. You didn't make her act out, she chose to act out and be the way she is. This kind of behavior is exactly what lands people in jail so think of this place as a form of jail or even prison. She got herself in this mess, let her get herself out and don't you interfere

In my Mom’s case, she was at geripsych for 17 days and then went to a dementia facility that was able to deal with challenging behaviors. It was quite a drive for me and more institutional looking. Many residents had been kicked out of other places. But you know what? It was right where she needed to be and the ample staff were all angels on earth. She was happy there and all the families I got to know couldn’t be more satisfied. In our area I’m told that many facilities don’t want to deal with challenging behaviors, some say they aren’t licensed for that, and some won’t accept a resident with a Lewy Body Dementia diagnosis. Good luck and prayers for you and your Mom.

My heart goes out to you ohmeowzer, I can imagine how awful this is on so many levels. It seems to me that the NH sent her to the special psych facility knowing they were the best ones to get control of her behavior. If she is now being released from the psych facility it must be because they feel her aggressive behavior is under control, that's all good stuff, it must be comforting to know and see her behaving more like herself and not out of control and being aggressive, that must have been terrible for you to see and hear about. It sounds like prior to her behavior change things were going well at the NH, you were visiting often with it being so close to home and able to respond to any need she or they had for you to be there, she was happy and doing well because the facility was nice and close to home enabling family to stop in often...I have a great picture in my head of the perfect situation for NH living. If that is the case the NH must have been happy having her and her family there too, no extra headaches. I point all of this out because if this is correct and she had been there for a good length of time it seems like the NH staff that worked with you all directly would be sad too see her go (aside from the behavior issues that forced that) and happy to have her back if they felt assured that things were back to "normal" with her. Have you gone in to talk with them, perhaps starting with some of the people you know and have dealt with before to get a feel for the best way and person to approach? Then I would use the idea Hollycharbo50 suggested and ask if they wont take her back straight from the psych would they after she has been somewhere else without the behavior problems. Point out that they sent her to a facility to manage her moods and that place wouldn't be releasing her if they didn't feel it was managed and their facility was so ideal for your family....talk them up and their skill in managing this bump. They must deal with this sort of thing all the time and I'm sure they have had patients that wern't nice or easy from the get go but it seems to me they should recognise the ones that aren't difficult normally. At least the people who have had more direct contact with your mother and her family, one of the things that occurs to me is that the people setting policy or making the decision that patients who are "kicked out" aren't welcome back may not be the people working with them day to day. Sure seems like there is a difference between an difficult patient and a patient who has an episode as part of their disease process that requires hospitalization to treat that, it's like having a heart rhythm episode and requiring hospitalization to straighten that out. My guess is unless you push and work it they go with the flat policy but if indeed she wasn't a problematic patient and particularly if they enjoyed having her around they might have a precedent for looking at individual cases, it's just not something the facility initiates it's something you need to initiate. That said it probably varies based on the facility and I may be all wrong, they wont even consider based on individual cases, it just sounds like they are a good facility which to me means they are about the people/patients and that's the type of place I think is more apt to reconsider various cases. It wont hurt to see if you can get them to reconsider even if you need to think outside of the box to make that happen. It's not as ideal but even if she has to go to this other facility or if it's possible come home somewhere for some period of time to prove that the Geropsych hospital got her leveled out with medication or whatever it was.

Boy do I know how overwhelming and stressful these emergencies are and how they tend to come up. My heart goes out to you. Know that you have a lot of emotional support here, try to take a deep breath and approach this one step at a time. What's most important to you (sounds like getting her back to that facility if her behavior issues have been resolved) and start there. It would be a good idea as well to do some research or start putting together back up plans as well, where are the other facilities closer to home and which ones are preferable, maybe they will take her with a certain amount of proven time with the behaviors under control. Maybe her doctor or the psych facility have suggestions, they work with this stuff all the time. Hopefully you will find that the situation isn't insurmountable and the end resolve isn't as bad as it feels rite now. Hang in there.

I'm sorry ohmeowzer. This is the same story of mine that brought me here to this group. My mom broke her pelvis and had mild dementia. Then hospital to skilled nursing 2 blocks away from home. She fell 6 times in 9 days. Off to the geriatric psych. Hospital. Then she had to go to the far away n.h. not in our town It was an old building and seemed awful too. But you know, the nurses there had been working for years there. They had less staff but had more knowledge. She is home now. They said not to worry because after a short time, if the patients behaviors are under control, they will have the bad behavior marker knocked off the record. Then you should be able to be accepted anywhere. Especially if everything is under control with meds. This is what the psych. Hospital told me too. Keep talking to old n.h. good luck!

I am so sorry for you pain. This sounds very similar to the situation I recently went through with my mom. She too was admitted to a geriatric psych for 10 days and had improved. I met with her Dr who told me that they were planning to discharge her in 2 days. I received a call from her previous nursing home who said they couldn't take her back. ( first time I heard of this) I ended up driving around that weekend and found a decent place for her 30 miles away who was willing to take her. I made a complaint to our state Dept of Health. They investigated the situation and they said they didn't see a problem with her nursing home's decision. I could prove it be I am guessing some of the medication (Xanax....which they were putting her on...and I said I wasn't happy with contributed to her angry behavior )
My suggestion is don't give up. Find another place for your mother. That would be the first thing. Your mom's care and safety is the most important thing. The suggestion of trying to get her back to the previous facility is also another option. I would try to see if they would be willing but I am guessing it is a long shot. There seems to be a long standing practice of once a resident has left the facility that gives that facility the opportunity not to allow them back even if things have improved with your mother.
I wish I could provide you more words of comfort. I would also try and contact your local Office on Aging as see if they can give you some suggestions. I am very sorry you have to go through this. Please don't give up.

My mom, was too, kicked out. She was on hospice at the time. Her behaviors were terrible, hitting, kicking, biting, you name it. She was a danger to herself and others. Hospice recommended a smaller care home, very homey, excellent care, special training of caregivers to deal with the behaviors. EVERYONE there had been kicked out of their previous facilities. And it seemed to operate so well, with content residents most of the time.

I was going through similar with my mom but it helped once the meds were increased...was your mom in a special dementia unit at nursing home when this happened because that staff is usually specialized in this area of patients

This happened to my Dad. He spent a month in geripsych and the anger and violent behavior stopped. We also had only one place that would take him- but after a month of good behavior we then re-applied to better facilities. Start asking now if other facilities will take her after a month of good behavior. Sorry you are going through this- it is so devastating to not have a decent place that will take her. My heart too was broken - but we had no other options. Hang in there.. ❤️🙏

ohmeowzer - I’m sorry for what you’re having to go through- your mom, too.

My mom was a handful but she never got violent. My mom had been 86’d from AL because she fell twice in the first ten days. Since mom was aware of that - when she was placed in a NH she was pretending to “fall” a couple of times a day. She blew it when one day - not knowing how long it was going to take for them to discover her - she took a pillow and blanket with her on her “fall”.

Taking my mom to a geriatric psychiatrist fixed the problem- along with a few others. How long have they been working with your mothers medications to get her behavior under control?

If you don’t mind me asking - when you say the new nh is one of the worst - in what way?

I'm sorry, I wish I had some advice to help you. (((hugs)))

She seems much better and they didn’t even give her a chance to try again the nursing home she was in was wonderful and now she’s off to the worst one far away from me ..oh ,my heart is broken

They said behaviors

Are her behaviors under control via meds now?

Is the original NH not accepting her due to behaviors or because they have no beds?