94 year old with dementia still driving. What to do?

Shad, you responded to my post by saying "set up the house so there is no need to get out and about. "

Not everyone wants to be isolated in their home.

My dad has always loved to go for a drive. He would take us 2.5 hours away from home to have breakfast. So no matter what was at home, he would be driving.

As much as we wish at times that we could enforce our will on an elderly loved one it is unrealistic and quite frankly, I think it is unjust to try and control what they do. Unless they are endangering others it is their business if they want to do things that we think are risky. We ALL do things that someone thinks are risky. We have to have a healthy balance when helping our elders.

I agree that there are probably hundreds, perhaps more, of mentally and physically incompetent drivers on our roads. My dad was one of those drivers who drove until 88 years of age, as was my mother-in-law (87) who has severe, brittle diabetes. My father-in-law has narcolepsy and still drives short distances (which scares me, but apparently not anyone else).

For my dad, it took the doctor telling him he could no longer drive and that she would be the first to call the police if she ever heard he was behind the wheel! We handed the car to my brother, since he was in desperate need of a trustworthy vehicle to get to/from work. (He eventually bought the car and the money went into Dad’s account.) Whenever Dad asked about his car, I would remind him how much he was blessing his son by allowing him to use his vehicle. Dad often forgot that the doctor told him that he wasn’t to drive, but we did whatever we could to get him where he needed to be, and let him know how sad we were that this part of his life was past. For men especially, this loss is huge!

My mother-in-law was one of those who drove and had multiple accidents due to her diabetes. She can no longer manage it properly and after many episodes of “near coma” low sugar levels, her brain has suffered. The police apparently became tired of finding her by the side of the road, or driving erratically, or causing accidents. It took the involvement of the police and the DMV to revoke her license and get her off the road. My sister-in-law tried to get the doctor to step in and relay to Mom that she could no longer drive, but the doctor stated that even when he reported to the DMV, his patients would still drive, so it wasn’t something he cared to do. (Not sure that all doctors would feel this way.) My father-in-law was enabling Mom to continue driving up to that point, even so far as giving her directions via cellphone when she was lost, and having her drive him to various activities, due to his narcolepsy.

The “rules” for revoking licenses is different from state to state. In my state, a doctor can send a notice to the DMV or the police can request that a driver’s license be revoked (or that they be tested by a particular facility that handles dementia patients). The family can try to get the loved one off the road, but that doesn’t suspend the license. Removing batteries, removing the vehicle, disengaging something in the engine to keep the person off the road is important. As several stated, a family could easily be liable for an accident in which their loved one was involved.

The most loving thing a family can do—as hard as it is—is take the keys and remove the vehicle from the loved ones’ presence. If the vehicle can’t be moved out, then do something to keep it from being driven. People’s lives are at stake whenever anyone with mental impairment is behind the wheel.

Driving is the last thing that a man wants to give up when his health is failing. I noticed this in my Dad. Even though he could barely walk into a grocery store, he could get in his pickup and ride out to the fire station to visit his friends there and to the store or just a ride up to where he use to fish about 5 miles from his house. He did not drive outside his community. I worried about him (and others) but he was lucid. He did not have dementia. But he could get out of the house. My husband and I just scaled down to a one car family. If I drive, he is constantly telling me how to drive and I have driven a vehicle for 55 years! Drives me crazy but they want to be in the driver's seat. That is the last thing they feel they have control over. It is HARD to tell them they can no longer drive. I know it HAS to be done for dementia patients and those in their 90's who are just not well enough but the STILL want to drive that car. Good luck and yes, he does not need to be driving. 97 years old is really pushing it. He will hurt himself, others, and tear up the vehicle at some point. Good luck in however you go about this. They do have pride so I know you are trying to tread carefully.

Try to explain to the other family members that your dad could fatally harm someone else while driving due to his impaired decision making. It is serious business.
My friend's mom at 86 actually hit a young mom pushing a stroller with her 2 kids who were crossing at a crosswalk. That's when they took her license away and she had a lawsuit on her hands. Another woman in my town who was 90, due to cognitive decline, accidentally put her foot on the gas instead of the brake and she drove her car up over a wall and crashed into the playground of a preschool. Luckily the children were still inside the building, but she was hurt. That's when her license was finally taken away.
Get a doctor's note stating that he is not capable of driving. Take away the keys or disable the car. I'm sure that your family does not want to be in any of the situations that I mentioned.

A quick lookup had minimal info about various state rules. For Kentucky, they had this:

"Kentucky has no laws against driving with dementia specifically but obviously has laws about medical conditions which impact a person’s ability to drive safely. If the Kentucky Medical Review Board receives an unsafe driver report, they will investigate and require documents from a doctor vouching for ability to drive."

You have several gates to this issue:
1) those who enable
2) those who refuse to take action
3) no mention of POAs, but not likely to help in this instance

First and foremost, the car needs to be disabled/removed while working on getting him off the road legally. Clearly relying on this cousin to do the RIGHT thing isn't going to work. Having a really dumb deputy sheriff gums up the works (does your Barney Fife have bullets for his gun????)

If at all possible, try the "borrowing" option and then find a way to disable it. Simple methods would be disconnecting the battery, but he or some unsuspecting friend, neighbor or mechanic would reconnect it, so leave a LARGE blatant note under the hood, if the car remains at the home. It would be great if you could disable it, and plan an "outing" with him driving - then call a tow truck when it won't start and get it out of the yard (you can explain the issue to the driver, out of earshot of dad.) Keep deferring the fix to keep it away, or even better quote some ridiculous amount of money/work that needs to be done. Another option is to have a kill switch installed, someplace where he won't find it. Having this requires extra steps to start the vehicle, which may thwart his attempts to drive, but still allow others to drive him places (so long as he doesn't get to see the steps needed to start it!)

Meanwhile, try to get a copy of the doctor's letter to the DMV. Request he do this again, only specifying how impaired he is medically and stipulating that dad MUST have a driving test, not just an eye test. Taking the license and/or insurance will NOT be enough. Many will continue to drive without it - even convicted drunk drivers who have had their licenses revoked continue to drive and there is no dementia involved! In the meantime, the car MUST be moved to a place where he won't have access to it or disabled in a way he can't fix/get fixed.

Also send certified letters to those "enablers" indicating that if they continue to do this, they could, in effect, be held responsible for your dad injuring or killing himself or someone else. Perhaps enlist the help of an attorney (EC?) to facilitate this. A letter from an attorney might be more useful.

Even with any kind of POA, which it doesn't sound like anyone has, legally the person still has "rights". In some respect, I understand this, but when it comes down to safety for them or others, I really think this is stupid. POA allows you to sign for the person who isn't capable and make some decisions that they cannot reasonably make, but it doesn't allow for taking cars away or making them move.

In your case, it may require seeking legal advice from EC atty about requesting guardianship. The courts will review medical documentation and if needed hire atty for dad and medical experts to make the decisions. Sometimes it can be partial guardianship. This won't be easy or cheap and could take some time, so the first thing is still to find a way to remove his access to a car. Ensure neighbors and friends will NOT loan their cars! If dad has any assets, they should be used to cover the cost , but may have to happen after the decisions are made, esp if you don't have any POA/access to their finances.

Enablers can sometimes blind everyone to what is going on. When it came time for mom to renew her license, my YB had not told me about an expensive accident she had (no one hurt, just some serious $) Because she has trouble with the eye machines, she got a note from her eye doctor and I took her to the DMV. Not too long after that, she got into another accident - again, I helped out by getting it from where it was towed to the place she had it repaired before. This is how I learned about the previous accident, when he told me that he had already replaced the "nose" before (front end, ~6k ea time.) She had said she "brushed" the telephone pole. Once it was moved, we went to check it out and make arrangements... Oh my! If that is brushing the pole, I would hate to see what hitting it full tilt would be!

Thankfully no one was hurt. IF I had been aware of the first accident, I might not have enabled her to renew her license. It would have been simple enough - even she was worried the cops would "pull" her license after the recent accident (not likely - perhaps, but usually it isn't enough.)

About this time she was not going far anymore and not driving at night, thankfully. It was mainly local stores, no more than a mile or so. The next indication was the missing plastic on the driver side mirror. Could have been anyone who did this, not just mom, but she was oblivious - "It was there the last time I drove it!" Around the same time we found the inspection sticker expired (many months.) As someone else said, driving is a privilege, not a right. When one no longer can maintain a car in good stead, understand the rules of the road and has no clue how their car was damaged, it is time to reassess!

So, the next, big indication was a call to say she needed help with a flat tire. I brought my tire pump down, and just stood with wonderment at what she had done - the tire was split from the rim to the ground and the metal trim around the wheel well was bent up and away... No idea if she drove it with a flat or hit something, but the rim was also damaged and the rear tire needed replacement too. There were also nice white stripes on both front fenders from scraping against the garage door trim.

I had AAA put the spare on and had it brought to my mechanic to get fixed. Then had chat with YB saying we need to take this away. I do understand that many will say this is their property and we have no business taking it, BUT out of concern for her and anyone she might injure or kill, I would take the chance that she might call someone to intervene!!

YB did all the talking and took the key. Her face was like a 5 yr old who was caught in the cookie jar. I only stood behind him, and on the way out suggested disabling it as I was sure she had another key (he pulled the battery cable.) Next day, who gets the nasty call/message about her key? Me of course. When I returned her call I could honestly say I never touched her key. She was so nasty to me that when she asked who did, I just replied 'You're so smart, YOU figure it out." and hung up. Day 2, an even nastier call demanding that I get down there RIGHT NOW and fix whatever I did to her car. Found the spare, she did! Again I could honestly say I never touched the car (I suggested the "fix", but never touched it!) So she asks what's wrong with it. Now I can say I'm not a mechanic, I don't know what's wrong with it (fib, but necessary.)

At some point we removed it from where she was living and never returned it. She whined. She moaned. She complained. She maintained that she "didn't go far", to which I replied "I don't care if you go 2 feet, if you hit someone you will lose EVERYTHING." Periodically she continued the whining, but eventually that morphed into her saying "The worse decision I ever made was to give up my wheels.", like it was HER idea! Eventually even that went away.

Out of sight, out of mind (and out of access!)

Take his keys and if he has a fit, oh well. If something happens while he is driving and you (your family) knows he isn't fit to drive who is responsible. Who has the POA? Be responsible and take the keys.

Before closing the window with the search results, which lists an overview of all states' laws and indicates last updates Dec 3 2019, but these could be outdated or wrong, I skimmed through the list.

(https://www.dementiacarecentral.com/caregiverinfo/driving-problems/)

Most have very similar wording, some (very few) are MUCH better about tackling this situation, but I see that MA (where mom was living at the time) says:
"Massachusetts asks drivers to self-report to the Registry of Motor Vehicles if diagnosed with dementia, for a reevaluation."

What idiot came up with THAT idea??? Clearly not someone who has ever dealt with dementia!!! I don't think there are many people, if any, who have been dxed with dementia who would EVER do this!! In their minds, they are just fine! Self-perception regresses, so they think they are as they were years ago. Denial is not just the name of a river. Some, when told by family or doctors that they should not be driving, living alone, or whatever, will maintain they are fine and that you and/or the docs don't know what they are talking about!

Hopefully all states will get a clue and make this process simpler for doctors and family/friends to get unsafe dementia drivers off the roads!

I have been there but 94 years old with dementia, can't fix a sandwich or make phone calls even when numbers can be programmed... but he can manage to track down his car after it was confiscated. It's not fun to take the keys away and it's not easy to take the vehicle away. Nothing is fun about Dementia or getting too old to drive but the combination is lethal. If he kills someone with driving at his age and in his condition he will lose everything he and your mother have left. I suspect your mother does not want to give up her independence of him not being able to drive anymore and the rest of your family and to some extent you are just doing what is easiest.... nothing. I know it seems harsh and may be a little inconvenient for the rest of you but it needs to be done. Try harder!

Have someone disconnect the distributor cap and the car won't start but it wouldn't hurt the car and then hope he doesn't remember the mechanics name. If you know the mechanics name contact him about your father's mental impairment and have him work with you so he doesn't fix it. Hopefully he won't use someone else to fix it. Or you can have the outside locks changed and don't give him a key also. When having rekeyed done also have the oil changed and if he questions you tell him you were taking it in to get a oil change, which you did and you have a receipt to prove it. Usually his primary doctor has a responsibly to notify the DMV to take away his driver's licence and his car insurance will be discontinued as well. Have the doctor note to DMV mentioned is is mentally impaired and not capable of driving. If you take away his car he may go to the dealershop to purchase another car, than the dealership will have some legal obligation not to sell him a car, first he has no license that is required on a purchase contact and he can not be hand responsible for the the purchase contract due he not mentally sound to sign any contact. You may want to find a cheap outside service for seniors on a fixed income to use to go to places and make arrangement with them to contact a son or daughter when he uses them so you have the needed payment for coming and going AND also know where he is so no senior missing alects aren't activated when he goes missing. To bad he isnt in a facility the has memory care - generally they are a locked facility that their residents are monitored all the time. When their a spouse involve it just things that must harder because your battlingvtwo people instead of one. You need to be firm to keep the from being hurt or sued for hurting others and loss everything they work hard for all there lifes. Good luck.

I don’t even see how this is debatable. He has been enabled. He took advantage of that enabling and drove. I pray to God he never kills anyone. The only answer is to remove the car. If there is no car around, then there is nothing to drive. Just sell the car if no one has figured out how to remove the car successfully. Why keep a car that shouldn’t be driven?

I took my dad to the DMV about a year after I brought him to FL to live with me. He had a broken hip and was through with rehab. Left his car in AL as he had been screwed over on his last trade in and was hitting things. At the FL DMV I told them he needed a state ID only. They smiled and said ok. He was in a wheelchair, so nobody asked any questions. He tells me continuously he is going to go get another car or the Navy is bringing him one. It’s so sad, but there is no way he can drive anymore. We just have to be determined

This is funny as just the other day as I was driving to the grocery, and elderly man was driving on the wrong side of the road, just tootling along. It was quite a site to see as this was one dangerous and busy intersection. Everybody and I mean everybody literally stopped where they were and let him pass. Never in all my years of driving have I seen something like this. I hope and pray he got home safely.
I do understand why we see things like this though and it truly saddens me to see seniors without any family or help. If they need groceries or medicine they have do what they have to do, laws or not will not stop a determined senior.
We as a community really need to take the time to see that our elderly neighbors and family are taken care of, the way it used to be.
I was lucky with my Mom, she handed over the keys willingly, knowing she had a full time chauffeur (me) on call. Yet, to be sure we did buy the car from her, so it was not available in case she decided to go for a spin.

Some women are very timid when it comes to taking over when their spouse is no longer competent to perform life skills. I agree with 2 other posts: Take the keys, Hide the car and sell it. No doubt he is confused at his age and will not remember what actually happened. Please SAVE him from killing himself or others!

Time for an intervention with the local sheriff's department. Talk to them first and have them "help" the whole family to understand that it is "illegal" for dad to drive anymore. Then, get that vehicle sold so it isn't a temptation.

I had to do this with my 85 year old mother..."you" turn them into the DMV; a direct family member. You have to find and fill out the proper paperwork...they cannot do anything until that's done. There is no anonymous reporting so there's that. After I turned her in to the DMV she received a letter to go down and take a routine test and until she did, her driver's license was suspended. I could not live with the fact that she could kill someone's family, innocent kids and teenagers just starting out...it haunted me for a week and I could wait no longer, so I did turn her in.

My family no longer talks to me saying I violated her rights. She was put on hospice 6 months later and had a good death at home. I am an RN IV which I put on the DMV document to testify she was, in fact, a danger on the road. I was also blamed for her death as she wasn't put on hospice until I arrived and I was the one who initiated the hospice referral and took care of all the details for the home death.

I have no family now but I do have peace knowing I took a very dangerous person off the road before they killed innocent people. Driving is a privilege that is earned and maintained through proving you still qualify for that privilege. I am also at peace knowing I gave my mom the proper, respectful death at home that wouldn't have happened had I not been there.

A bit of a back story of how this all came about. I had moved from HI to WA state after determining my mother needed my help. When I arrived at her home I was horrified to find her car had a few large dents. She had an excuse for every dent. When I rode in the car with her driving, she could not stay on the right side of the rode and her judgment for distance was gone...I could not believe we survived the ride.

She lived out in the country in a small town so no one held her accountable. I also discovered she was on multiple meds; adderall, valium, pain meds, ambien & more...her medical Dx was much worse with chronic high blood pressure, pace maker, complete heart block etc...you get the picture and she slipped into long moments with what I will call in layman terms madness. I would find her with random fits of hysteria, she thought everyone was stealing from her and moving the furniture to confuse her, she was hearing and seeing what wasn't there, and yes, she was still driving on public roads with the blessing of the rest of the family...yea.

I do not regret what I did and it got real nasty. I tortured myself with am I doing the right thing, am I wrong: then visions of mangled dead people would enter my mind with my mother standing over them and I would cry...if it had not been a direct family member, I would have never hesitated. I tried to incorporate the help of her doc because I knew he had to know and he brushed me off. I then told the doc I was doing a medication review on her med profile that he was prescribing my mother. He suddenly moved if you can believe that...he actually closed down his practice and disappeared. Take care of your loved ones people.

Don't be afraid to do the right thing...

Kentucky, this is a classic 'tough nut', as I'm sure you know. EVERY situation is different, but in this forum, you'll get so many ideas and others' experiences to be able to guide yourselves (or so I hope and pray). I believe my mom (now 90) was 84-85. DMV said they couldn't legally do anything (like a DV victim not being protected until 'something actually happens'). DMV also told me that 'most seniors will self-select at some point to quit driving. Well, that'd be swell IF... on maybe 3 occasions I played 'passenger' solely to monitor her abilities. Honestly, to say it was 'hair raising' is hugely minimizing. It was truly a miracle (or good luck) she didn't sideswipe a car (parked or not), or drift into an oncoming lane for a head-on (mind you, this is PURELY local driving, no freeways!). Sisters weren't 'boots on the ground'--it was just me. SO, one day she took herself to local urgent care for a UTI (literally not 1/2 mi. away). The staff upon checkout asked for her driver's license; they made a copy of it and gave it right back; and because of the legal requirement of a medical provider, they legally filed a report (form) with DMV, who eventually suspended her license (via mail). Mom wanted to 'fight it', but wasn't capable of dealing with the beuerocracy on her own (no computer, inability to navigate to labrynth of red tape). I just kept putting off helping her with that idea (she tried my younger sis, but she did the same thing). Anyway, mom finally ceded the battle. Some folks (including my therapist) were p/o'd and said the Urgent Care 'tricked her' into giving her license to them, questionable legality, so on. Best to you all!

Talk to your Alzheimer's Association, the Police, and the DMV. They WILL step in and solve the problem for you and just as my Mother-- your Dad will quickly forget he ever drove and become quite dependent on you and others for rides to the doc and all-- might wanna get him in an assisted living as well for his own safety--- also via other folks like Adult Protective Services. Oh--- DMV HAS to take away his driver's license-- their job-- hold their feet to the fire-- call the cops on them--- nothing worse than a lazy administrator. Consult your local Alzheimer's support group and Alzheimer's Association county representatives. (211).

With the advent of online shopping and work from home opportunities the need to drive becomes less and less.

Disable the auto by removing an element.

My Mother in Law (MIL) had an accident a couple years ago, but didn't remember it. We discovered it a 4 days later when we came to visit, but didn't see her car. After finding it had not been towed from her apartment complex, we had her call to report it stolen. The officer reminded her that she had been in an accident and it was towed from the accident site, did she remember? Apparently the officer responding to the accident had reported to DMV that she was confused. We later got paperwork for her doctor to fill out and her license was revoked. She still says occasionally that she never should have given up her license and her car, and gets angry about it. But after several accidents, it's a good thing she doesn't drive anymore.

Have someone disconnect the battery cables

Even if the person doesn't have a driver's license, it will not stop him from driving. Best to disable the vehicle. Pull out the spark plugs, detach the thingy from the battery, hide the keys. Every time they ask for the key, you will just have to make a show of frantically and thoroughly searching for it. Whatever you do, do not let the insurance expire. That just makes the situation worse, especially if he gets into an accident. If the injured party cannot go after the insurance company, they will go after him or the family...

Do whatever you have to do to either disable the car or take the keys. A dear friend's daughter was in a horrific accident a few years ago. The driver who hit her was an elderly man with dementia, whose kids KNEW he couldn't, and shouldn't drive. He didn't remember much of the accident. My friend's daughter now has permanent brain damage, affecting her memory, her speech and her cognitive ability. She will need specialized treatment and therapy for the rest of her life. She was a year from graduating from college, so she's trying to finish that final year but is only able to take 1-2 classes at a time. Another passenger in the car has permanent neck problems, causing her awful pain. What I'm trying to say is no matter how much the patient protests, you HAVE to take away their ability to drive, because they may not hurt themselves, but any other innocent driver on the road. When they went to reclaim her daughter's car at the junkyard, the other man's son said to her, "Yeah, we knew he was going to hit someone some day. He always goes through that stop sign....." Needless to say they are pursuing legal action.

if you take away the car, you will take away one of his reasons for living. Clearly driving is very important to him. Im guessing by his age that cars were just invented when he was a kid. Probably his big dream when he was young was owing a big shiny car. And im guessing he's probably a good driver
Surprisingly so for his age.
If he was clear minded enough to reclaim his car he's doing better than most
Don't make any rash decisions. Give it a little time & consideration.
There are always solutions to every struggle.
Your father sounds like quite a character. Enjoy him while he's still here

https://www.wikihow.com/Replace-an-Ignition-Switch

I’ve read about 30 of the responses and my story is much the same. 91 yo mom with dementia. In Cali all DMV will do is revoke, they can’t keep her from actually getting in the car. Mom passed the written test, the eye test but failed miserably on the driving test. (I refused to take her so sis took). Now mom is appealing the decision. It’s a week away and she’ll probably/hopefully forget the date. I live with her and there is another caregiver so she can’t sneak away. And she can’t get her walker in the car 🙏
Just think how you’ll feel when he hurts/kills himself or someone else. Take the car and they keys away. They will forget about it sooner or later. The rest of your enabling family should be shamed... to put lives in danger.
Good luck

Take off the Plates...xx

I think everyone understands that getting the drivers license revoked is just the first step.  It's a little hard to take someone's car away from them when the state still recognizes them as a valid driver.  Once revoked, selling the vehicle or dismantling the vehicle is what you have to do to keep the demented person from driving.

You could report him to the DMV or have your doctor do it. Then he will have to take and pass the driving test.