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Any advice greatly appreciated. My grandfather has been showing signs of dementia for a year or so now. My dad lives with him and does what he can. Recently he has gone down hill significantly. I am his POA and named on all of his affairs. However he never gave me a copy of the paperwork. A week ago today he left his home to get something to eat and was gone for hours, not answering his phone. 4 and a half hours later and 3 police/sheriff agencies we found him, 4 miles or so from his home, on the side of the road his car was wrecked and he had no idea where he was. He could hardly stand or walk and couldn't answer questions regarding what happened due to memory and word finding. His license was taking by the police. The insurance company is needing a copy of the POA paperwork so that I can take care of the car. He is fighting me saying I dont need the paperwork etc. He states he doesn't remember the lawyer who did the paperwork. Today got pretty heated. I am in desperate need of getting these papers not only for the car but mainly so that I can take care of him and his affairs. He does not bathe anymore - barely eats - has lost a lot of weight and has bladder issues but refuses any type of products to help with accidents. He hardly drinks throughout the day I think to avoid more bladder issues. Help!



How can I get this paperwork that I know exists?
I've called multiple lawyers no luck, His financial advisor, his bank, doctor, and hospital. No luck.

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My money is that it's in a safe deposit box, which of course is the worst place to keep wills, trusts, and POA paperwork. No one can access the box without the paperwork that's kept in the box.
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AlvaDeer Jan 2023
That's what I am thinking.
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Any cancelled checks in his home? My.Mom kept themself years. Maybe you can find cancelled checks to an attorney. Or check register or credit card statements?
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Geaton, the person appointed as POA does NOT have to sign anything on the POA form. It is the person who is designating someone to be their POA who is doing the signing. My own attorney had me sign my POA but the person I appointed did not. When my aunt appointed her lawyer prepared her POA/successor POA she signed in front of notary but the POA did not.
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Geaton777 Jan 2023
Google it. It depends on each states' rules. They do in my state of MN and apparently in FL, where I have been assigned by 2 different people. I had to be present to sign the docs in person in front of witnesses and the notary/attorney.

Why would someone appoint a PoA without even asking them if they want to have this responsibility? And did the assignee's attorney not create a 2nd original document to give to the PoA so that they could carry out the role and then TELL them to give it to them?
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How do you know that the paperwork exists?
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Search the house. Does your grandfather have a safety deposit box at a bank?
If you don't know the law firm who did the POA and can't locate the document, your father (who is grandfather's next of kin) needs to go to the probate court in your town and petition for POA and conservatorship over your grandfather. Your father can tell them at the court that he refuses it and you can accept it. Go with him to the probate court. They will help you and your father.
Is your grandfather out of the hospital?
If he's not you and your father need to ask to speak to a social worker at the hospital and ask for a 'Social Admit'. Tell them that you both refuse to resume care for your grandfather until one of you gets appointed POA and conservator and that he is an unsafe discharge. They will keep him in the hospital until they find a nursing home for him to go to.
If you want to take care of him get conservatorship and when that's done let him come home. Or not.
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Go to your county clerk's office. It should have been filed there. If it wasn't, there is no POA at all. If there is none, get one written and have him sign in front of a notary. That may not be easy but it is necessary. BTW, no matter his mental status, unless he has been officially diagnosed as dementated he can still legally sign the POA. If he has been so diagnosed it is too late. See a lawyer, a court order might be necessary. You have a tough situation, good luck.
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TouchMatters Jan 2023
It is my understanding that a POA DOES NOT NEED to be filed at the county clerk's office (from personal experience).

It needs to be drawn up by an attorney, and they notarize / authenticate it.

Please be sure on stating procedures here - especially considering different State requirements, as a response like this could create a lot of fear - for so many - who haven't filed their POA with the county / state.

Another issue that needs immediate attention:

* Getting GrDad medically evaluated for (in)capacitation [as] this is the first step to getting the legal authority needed to make decisions your gr-dad can no longer make.

* ASAP: Secure services of an attorney specializing in estate / elder trusts.

Gena / Touch Matters
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I think the original writer had left the building. It has been 2 weeks since the question was asked. Hope everything is ok.
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More than likely, IF he ever got a POA done, a copy is somewhere in his house. They aren't filed anywhere like a courthouse. Unless you live in a small town, you may never find the atty who wrote it for him. At this point, you probably just need a new document so getting that will be the real solution.

You might start with a police report that documents his state of mind, the accident and that they took his license. Go get a consult with an attorney to find out if that's enough to establish incompetency to be over his affairs. If his child(ren) are living, it may have to be one of them.

You should ask all of his children if they have a copy of the will (and POA). Once he is deemed incompetent, he will not be able to write a new will. So that means, when his life is over a probate w/out will would have to be done and his leftovers would just be divided between the living children. If no children, then to siblings or grandkids, I'm sure.

You might ask him again about these documents. Remind him they took his license and w/out the license he can't get the car back, but if the two of you could find the POA, you would be able to help him get the car. Just tell him, insurance company wants to help him and wants to see that you were given permission to help him out.

I do question that you say you are POA, but never got a copy of the document. Have you ever handled any task for him as his POA...and how did you prove you were POA? Or did he just tell you you were, but never had to actually do any thing for him that required a POA?
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Have you looked all around his house? If you can’t find them, the next step would be to talk to an elder law attorney and start proceedings to have him deemed incompetent to look after his own affairs and be named his representative. Then you’ll have the ability to make decisions on his behalf with the oversight of the court. You’ve got plenty of evidence since you’ve got the police record of his license being taken away and his confused state.
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BurntCaregiver Jan 2023
@Dizzerth

They should not run up a bill with elder specialty lawyers. They need to go to the probate court first and petition for conservatorship. The probate court will appoint a lawyer to represent the "interests" of the grandfather. They will not need to hire one for themselves if they have the necessary medical documentation and police records to show the grandfather's incompetence. The lawyer they appoint will have to be paid for by the grandfather's funds though.
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If a POA was drawn up then you can get a copy of this document from the attorney who created the document. I just had my POA created and I was given a paper copy plus a copy on a hard drive, and my attorney’s office also has a copy on file at their office.
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