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She is 94, and in addition to severe dementia (presumed to be Alzheimer's), she also has a lifelong underlying mental illness that we believe to be Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It has become exacerbated with age. I have some disabilities, but I've been her sole caregiver for several years. She is usually fairly clearheaded for a few hours in the mornings, but by late afternoon, she becomes completely delusional, unable to perceive logic or recognize reality. And whatever delusional idea she gets, she is adamantly committed to it, to the point of trying to leave the house, and violently attacking me when I have to stop her.


Tonight, she swung her walker at me (she's very strong when she's angry) and I grabbed it in mid-swing to keep from being hit -- and she lost her balance. I caught her and eased her down to the floor (I am no longer strong enough to hold her up), but she did scrape her elbow. Now she claims I knocked her down, and she's going to have me arrested. (She will almost certainly remember none of this in the morning, thank goodness.)


This is the first time she's gotten hurt during an attack, and I'm worried that I may no longer be able to keep her safe. I'm also worried that the crushing pressure and anxiety and desperation of all this is going to end me. At what point do you give up and do what your mother has told you all your life you must NEVER do, "Don't you EVER put me in a home, I'll kill myself," ever since I was about eight years old. I'm trying so hard to fulfill the promise I made, because I think her few lucid hours a day would probably be lost if she were among strangers. But I don't know how long I can continue before I break, physically or mentally or both. How do you know when it's time to give up? I don't want to be selfish. I want to do the right thing for her.

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Sleepless....its really important to remember that our mother's act horribly for US, when in reality, they're doing fine. They have no other shoulder to cry on, so to speak, so we get ALL of the ugly crying, complaining and carrying on in general. Just today I called mom's physical therapist and told her from now on, mom would have to speak directly to HER about quitting PT, not me. I've had it up to here with the continuous stream of complaining, yet mom NEVER says boo to the therapist. Problem fixed. Your mom WILL settle into a routine at the new place, trust me. She may tell YOU otherwise, which is why you must FACT CHECK with the staff. When mom complains, call the staff to see how she's REALLY doing. When she tells you she's not eating because the food is soooooo horrible, again, call the staff for the truth....they keep checklists about such things, unbeknownst to the Drama Queen mothers. Remember..these women are tougher than we think. They've been through wars and the great depression and deaths of husbands and tons of other hardships. A nice room in a nursing home with lots of good care is NOT going to bring them down!
My other suggestion is to avoid calling or visiting during sundowning hours. Everything is ten times worse in the evenings, and when I speak to mother during those times I swear I've jumped down the rabbit hole for real! Figure out her schedule, once she gets one, and tailor your visits and calls around it. If the histrionics get too much over the phone or in person, cut the call or the visit short. Keep in mind this is an adjustment for BOTH of you so don't allow yourself to become a whipping post out of misguided guilt.
It will all work out. Good luck!
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Double sided deadbolts! Don't try to stop her, let the door stop her. I've had some incidents of "what's this nonsense" but now that she knows it's locked she doesn't try anymore.
I know this sounds odd, but I use a technique my former business partner and I would use with our (musician/artist/rapper) clients. I was the good cop. My job was to hang out with them and help them write or engineer their recording or whatever and feed them if they got hungry and he, the bad cop, was always off having work or social anxiety while also funding everything. I would say "well I would buy Josh said no." They'd hate him for it, not me.
My point: I now use my moms persistent lifelong belief in some shadowy malevolent "Them" to justify things like baby locks and deadbolts. I tell her truthfully "oh I know, it's a pain for me too, but you know how they are (roll eyes here.) If I don't put them up they'll say I'm not taking care of you. Let's do a puzzle or something, we can't let them ruin our day!" My mom is so contrary that she is immediately all "yeah let's, They're jerks!" I was surprised but amused and thankful that this worked like a charm! I had considered a white lie a last resort.
On the whole "I'm gonna blame you for my elbow scrape" thing... My mom loves this horrible little dog I adopted from a friend as a favor well before I moved her in with me. Doggo is somewhat frantic generally (she's a pugwawa) and scratched her on the hand really badly while I was off to walmart one day with a friend for groceries. She didn't want to blame the dog (who was honestly not at fault and would never hurt her grandma on purpose) so she said I did it. "Um mom I wasn't here." My friend: "miss penny we were at the walmart getting you groceries." Mom knows damn well I didn't do that, she was just embarassed that she got the doggo excited and didn't want to get the dog in trouble. Your mom is just lashing out at you bc she is ashamed she did that herself. You are doing amazing and don't let anyone with a mental disability that separates them from reason tell you different!! Social services and animal control are so... Antisocial sometimes depending on where you live. I've heard some horror stories. It's just as normal for us to be anxious for ourselves (or the dog) as it is for our moms to be mean about admitting what's their own doing. Today my mom and I had a great talk (lucid day) and she admitted that she'd been making a mess of herself to upset me. She apologized. Even drank her water without complaining... There is hope!!
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Sleepless1 Jul 2019
Thank you so much, Mr. Flex -- I found your comment here just a few minutes after calling my mom three times at the nursing home where she has now lived for several days -- she kept hanging up on me because I could not agree to go pick her up and bring her home.

Late in the day, nothing I can say or do will make her understand that home is no longer an option, because I'm not physically able to do for her what she needs done. She just sobs, and then gets angry and won't speak to me at all. It makes me feel like a monster.

The nursing home is a very nice place, and there are pet birds and bunnies and regular therapy dog visits... the staff is kind and really wants to help... and Mom agrees on all this, in the early part of the day. But when she starts to sundown, there is nothing good in her life at all.

Your response helped me stop crying and get some perspective on things. I've been there to visit every day so far, but that can't continue, because it's 50 miles roundtrip, and I'm too poor to do it that often. But oh, to know that she's SO sad when I'm not there... it's unbearable. I've set her up with lots of books, magazines, puzzle books, notebooks to write her memoirs in, and painting supplies. I need to bring her colored pencils. I'm getting her a radio, but I need to find a way to secure it to her bedrail, because some of the other patients are so confused that they just wander in and take things, thinking they're shopping.

I think the key is activity, and I need to find more things that are easy for her to do even when I'm not there. I know it's early yet, it'll be a week tomorrow night since she moved there from the hospital... maybe she'll settle down with time. Please tell me she'll settle down with time!
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You have done more than most people would do. You’re a good daughter - now you are done. Period. Why? Because you are not physically equipped to handle the violence AND your own mental health will suffer if you continue to try & care for her yourself. Put her in a memory care unit where she will get care from people who are equipped to deal with her. Oh, also do NOT accept a ticket for the guilt trip your mom will hand you!
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UPDATE 30 JUNE:

Thank you for your responses! It's really good to hear other perspectives and learn from your experience.

Things are WAY better. I got them to stop the Haldol and cut way back on the Seroquel... and they've added Norvasc for her spiky blood pressure, instead of using Clonidine when it's high -- not sure how that's working, but I think I like it better than Clonidine.

Mom was clearheaded, calm, even funny all day yesterday and today, until confusion set in around 4:30 or 5:00 (sundowning). It's a battle to get her to understand anything in the evenings, but I stay patient (well, I FAKE patience), and eventually, she is reassured. I will get there extra early tomorrow and make my pitch to the hospitalist, the telepsych doctor, and the social worker: I'm convinced that recurring UTIs have been the trigger behind the rages, and now, with professional care and regular showers (as opposed to sponge baths, which are all we can manage at home), plus a heavy-duty cranberry supplement and a renewed commitment to drinking water, I believe she will be a peaceful, pleasant patient.

Cross your fingers for us!
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Isthisrealyreal Jun 2019
Sleepless, fingers crossed and prayers said. You must be feeling quite relieved at the progress.

Remember to take care of you and breathe! Hugs 🤗
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When my father-in-law started pushing and hitting me, that was my bottom line. I told my husband and the family I married into that I would not longer be his caretaker. Some of them tried to guilt me into changing my mind but I stayed strong in my decision. I think the years of hell that I went through with my father-in-law and the family dynamic were contributing factors in a breast cancer diagnosis I later received. I'm not saying that you get this or other diseases but I am saying that intense stress and lack of sleep can lower your Immune system and create all sorts of health issues.

I understand how hard it is to place your loved one in a facility but you have done your best. I don't mean to be insensitive but your sacrifice will do nothing to reverse her disease. It is not selfish to take care of yourself. Your not giving up, your finding a better solution for your Mom and yourself. You can visit her in the morning and see her for her lucid hours. The promise you made at age 8 was done with an 8 year old mind, it is not longer valid. Not only do you want to do the right thing for your Mother but you owe it to yourself to do what's right for you.

G-d bless and help you, Sleepless1
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Sleepless, I've been staring at the updates for some time now, but I haven't come up with anything except that I am now depressed.

The IV line was for a(nother) uti, yes?

So is that treatment now under way again?

I'm never one to blame hospital staff for being reluctant to get bitten (my daughter's a doctor and although I may have laughed about what happened when she patted a sweet little old lady's hand in the ER it really isn't funny); but then again there is a balance to be struck. There also has to be due consideration for the causes of the risky behaviour and whether they're still there. So I don't blame you either for being your mother's advocate, and neither should her health care team.

I don't know if there's any such thing in your hospital: in ours, we have PALS offices - Patient Advisory & Liaison Service. I'd be surprised if there isn't some kind of equivalent where you can find help with communication and advocacy. Worth asking?
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Sorry to hear about your mom's setback, but it's difficult to protest the overmedication yet. (They have to consider the safety of other patients or staff, until they get the final diagnosis for your mom's mental situation. If you could arrange a private duty aide or nurse for her (24/7) until the diagnosis comes in, they may agree to reduce the meds for now. So costly though to hire a private duty.
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So sorry for all you are going through. When my Mom started getting violent towards Dad and me that's when I broke the promise. The strange thing is that after a rough week or two, Mom is doing better in the SNF than we ever expected (she's eating better, staff dealing with most breakdowns and only calling occasionally, she's starting to make a couple of friends). Even if the "mental health judge" is not helpful, perhaps the social worker at the hospital or the family friend who has some elder care experience can help in locating a place for your Mom that you can feel comfortable with. Perhaps where you are located children are not legally responsible for their parents and you can refuse to take her back in, especially if you explain she is endangering herself and/or you at home due to her behavior (or you may need to think about an order of protection which excludes her from the home). Then the hospital or court may have to plan for her. We used a Senior Care Coordinator who helped us find respite in the past to locate a more permanent place for Mom and then decided on a different place that seemed a better fit. I visit at least once a week and try varying the days sometimes to keep staff attentive to Mom.
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Frances73 Jun 2019
One of the best things about having Mom in assisted living is that she is now taking her meds as ordered by the doctors. The nurses make sure she is taking the pills on time instead of when she feels like it!
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Your Mom demanded that promise from an eight year old? And told a young child she would kill herself? Sorry, but that kind of person is beyond narcissistic! It sounds like you have been brain washed. Do what you have to do to keep her safe, then do what you need to do to recover. You have a life, go live it!
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PureeMasterFlex Jul 2019
Thank you.
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UPDATE 28 JUNE

I am so sorry to report that we have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The night before Mom's planned transfer to a beautiful SNF, she had an incident. Her IV line went bad, and they needed to replace it, but she refused. They insisted, and she became violent.

The transfer was cancelled, because the SNF wouldn't take a violent patient.

They decided that Mom should spend a week or two in a psych hospital to get her meds tweaked by experts. The idea is to find the combination of drugs that allows her to function as well as possible, and then see if she's still an SNF candidate.

But in our county, a "mental health judge" has to approve that plan, and he won't if he considers her problem not mental, but merely medical -- dementia, in other words. So after years of covering for Mom, I find myself now recounting the abnormal behaviors of the past, trying to demonstrate that there is mental illness as well as dementia.

Meanwhile, the hospital is so afraid of my 94-year-old mother that they are loading her up with so much Seroquel and Haldol that she has been virtually unrousable all day long, just from her 7:00 am meds. I am trying to put a stop to that. This, of course, makes me look to them like a meddling ignorant layperson who should just shut up and let them do their jobs. But I'll be damned if I let them drug her to death!

I'm so tired.
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Kittybee Jun 2019
I'll bet you're exhausted. I'm so sorry about this setback. Don't worry about what the hospital staff might be thinking of you. Do what you need to do, and try to get some rest.
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My answer to knowing when it is time is simply this: Once you realize that YOU are being abused and YOUR life is being destroyed or otherwise affected in a negative way, and nothing stops that, then IMMEDIATELY REMOVE HER FROM THE HOME AND PLACE HER SOMEWHERE. Anyone who behaves like this has burned their bridges and now must pay the price.
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notrydoyoda Jun 2019
See Sleepless1Jun 26, 2019. The situation has been resolved! Yeah!
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Sometimes it is selfish not to break a promise - think of where she would be if you were out of the picture either from her hurting you or a breakdown on your part

When you promised not to put her in a home it was also implied on her end that she would be acting rationally & not be physically abusive to you - even though her mental decline was not on purpose it still has happened so as I see it she broke her implied promise to you so you are now absolved of your promise to her

Get her into a home ASAP before you break & join her!! - your promise was not to the mom she is now but to the woman she used to be .... the same body but not the same person or personality - these promises were made probably under pressure from her & without you fully understanding what was involved which negates the promise

When [not if] she is being taken care of 24/7 by professionals then you will become her advocate & can make sure she has all she needs - don't worry about her 'getting worse' there as she is getting worse at home too - the fact that you couldn't keep her from falling & scraping her elbow is the red flag here that is an alert that you need help to deal with her because you can't continue on your own
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PureeMasterFlex Jul 2019
Delegate!! If someone else has to have the shower and drink water etc arguments you can be the ice cream lady and she'll love you forever and day!
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Great to see positive things happening now for you and your mam. You are a loving, caring soul and you should be very proud of yourself. Hugs to your mam xxx
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Great to hear such positive news!
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Sleepless1- the best update! Yippee. Good results. Make sure there is a doctor and you meet her/him at the facility. Let him know her dose was just changed and may need close monitoring. Let him know this- he may not see note or treatment at hospital. Be sure he will remain your moms doc.

also loved that your dad was there to help! I believe!
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Sleepless1, good news.

I will believe with you that this is her forever home.🤗
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Sleepless1: You tried to drive after taking 2 sleeping pills? Good grief - Thank heavens you lived! You must NOT fall for mom's acrimony, else you fall over and faint! Seek other arrangements for her NOW!
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Sleepless1 Jun 2019
UPDATE 26 JUNE:

By reducing her dose of Seroquel and adding Remeron, the hospital has wrought a miracle. Mom is so much calmer and more rational!

And with the help of my best friend, his sister, and her friend who works in eldercare, I visited eight nearby rehab places and found a skilled nursing facility I think Mom will like, with both rehab and long-term care!

Ginkgo trees were very special to my father and me -- I wear a ginkgo leaf ring in his memory -- and when I walked into this facility, the first thing I saw was an arched ceiling painted with beautiful gingko branches! It felt as if Papa sent me there.

And everything about the place and the people felt good, too, so in the morning, we'll transfer Mom to this rehab center, and we'll see how she does. Her attitude right now is very positive! I'll stay with her the first night, just to be sure she feels safe.

I feel very good about this now... and that is in large part because of YOU, total strangers who cared enough to help me see reality more clearly and make better decisions for my mom... AND me.

You are good, kind people, and I thank you truly, from the heart.
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I hope the hospital staff has an advocate to help you get your mom someplace safer for her. I am all for sedation for outbursts.

You are are an angel and I think being watched over by an angel- other wise you would have hit that truck. And we wouldn’t be able to try and offer advice any longer.
Please ask as many people on staff how to get you mom placed someplace safe. Some nursing homes won’t take violent clients.

Your health is more important. Please take care of you first.
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PureeMasterFlex Jul 2019
I know it shouldn't but at my age (40) this reminds me of my friends kids getting kicked out of daycare. For them this will be Round Two. For me it's my first... I have no kids. My mom said once when she was all there and we were at my house with a friend and her kids "if you ever have a kid I'm going to run away and join the circus." We all died laughing. Another friend says "take her to the senior center" sure, until she lectures them all about literacy and bites someone. (Please excuse the dark humor if you can, my mom always said "if you can't laugh you'll be crying."
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Your promise to your mother was made as a small child of 8 years old without the knowledge and understanding of and adult by someone who took advantage of your young mind and heart. You are no longer 8 and your mother is not of sound mind, but you are of sound mind. Stop responding to your mother as if you were still 8. Respond as an adult who knows and understands what is going on therefore letting the medical professionals tend to your mother. Please, take care of yourself!
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Don't give up.....Give in. Give in to the situation and the reality of it. Neither of you are safe if she stays at home. You may have promised her to keep her home based on the information that you had at the time, but things have changed, and as a mature adult you have to make the best decision for her. Please don't feel guilty, you have obviously done the very best you can. You are a good person and a great daughter.
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anonymous828521 Jun 2019
So well said, reminds us that we are "not guilty". Simple thing like facing reality & our own limitations is good, (not failure). Thank you SophiaA.
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Your mother is being taken care of in the hospital. You take care of yourself and please don't go out like that at night again on sleeping pills just because mommy said so. Sleep some more today. You likely need it. Go to see her in the hospital when you feel up to it. Take care of yourself and do something nice for yourself today. You are a valuable human being. Tell yourself that while looking in the mirror if you need to.
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Sleepless1 Jun 2019
Thank you so much.
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Just because your mother tells you that you have to endanger your own life to see her in the hospital in the middle of the night does NOT mean you must do it.

Your mother has lost her reasoning ability.

You must start to do what is best for your health and well-being.
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This sounds like my story. I took my mother off all medicine except anxiety medication and tylenol once a day. Seemed to help stabilize her some emotionally. My only regret is I had gotten her a first alert monitor in the beginning of her ailments. Off to the hospital she would go and be saved. She is still here today and is miserable most times living with macular degeneration and significant hearing loss after her last heart attack. Its now clear to me we are all going to die of something and now feel I cheated her out of her natural death. She was once on hospice and the nurse told me to stop all drugs except for comfort drugs and let her live the rest of her life naturally ......I totally agree. Its Ok to let her go naturally.
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Sleepless1 Jun 2019
I don't intend to give up on keeping her alive! I only meant that I feel I have to give up trying to keep her at home. Other than mobility, she's in remarkable health.
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From what you say, YOU MUST PUT HER INTO A FACILITY - NOW. With her mental status and her violence towards you and the effect of her behavior on you, you have no choice. She'll say she will kill herself but she really won't and besides how could she? Just do it and have some peace. You do NOT deserve what you are getting from her. Please do it now.
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Dearest Sleepless1,
Let me start by saying my heart and my prayers go out to you. There is very few things that can put us in such a heart wrenching circumstances as where you are now. I faced the same delima with my mother several years ago. The feelings of guilt and failure overpowered me at times. Reasoning on the entire situation helped me get thru it as well as all of the wonderful love and help I found at this site.

Something you need to keep in mind is why you made the promise that you did to your mother. Wasn't it because you love her very much and have always wanted her to have the best care? Reaching a point where you need help does not mean you have failed. And placing your mother in a facility where she can be cared for by people who have been trained to help our loved ones with dementia means you are still trying to do the very best for your mother. You are still trying to do your very best to take care of your mother.

It is not an easy decision, I know. When I placed my mother in an assisted living facility I cried for a week. My mother was very upset with me and did not want to go, not because she thought I was breaking my promise but because she didn't understand what was happening. But very quickly she adjusted and became quite content and happy with her surroundings. As time passed and my guilt gave way to appreciation for the help she was getting, as well as my own mental and emotional health recovering from the trauma of the last several years, I realized it was the right decision.

Care taking my seem like a thankless job that zaps us of our own physical and emotional health, but that is not true. You have done the very best for your mother which means you have kept your promise. If your mother could be fully aware of what you have done for her she would be so grateful. And even tho that may not be possible now, God will never forget the love you have shown and the sacrifices you have made. (1 Corinthians 15:58) But as others have already commented, you do have to think of yourself and your own health as well. I hope this has helped you and we are all thinking of you and praying for you as you make this difficult decision.
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PureeMasterFlex Jul 2019
Thank you for this!! I never did promise my mom, she said to "shoot me please" and I said I never would. Not a promise, just a fact. I DID however promise my Dad, who passed when I was 8. He told me to always remember he loves me and always look after mom if anything happened to him. Since I can remember. He never said "let her hit you and do things she will be ashamed of later." I will not allow her to embarass herself. sIf it got to the point where I was beyond the task... As the corporate america (which I ditched to take care of mom) says: "learning how to delegate responsibility and avoid micromanaging is not only good for stress levels, but also an important management skill." If I don't have the skillset for something there's no shame in finding someone who does! At the moment my mom is enough my mom that nobody here gets her but me. I see why she hated the facility... A woman with an ivy league MBA who was a master chef too was bound to be bored to death by the caretakers she was with.
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Are you living with her? Have you thought that at night she might think you an intruder, sleeping in her home?..OMG... You need to call social services TODAY, before she sticks something sharp in you....Advanced Alzheimer's care is a team system, and if she is violent, it's extremely dangerous for you to try and do this yourself ,,, that's why they have locked doors in the memory units in hospitals. The next time she falls down, call an ambulance to help her up, and take her to be evaluated for injury, the hospital can and will help you place her., It won't matter if she objects. Bring her doctors contact info and her medications with you. Good Luck and please get some help today.
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Sleepless1 Jun 2019
UPDATE...
Thank you all for your thoughtful guidance. Between your help ans Mom's ongoing behavior, it is clear to me now that she cannot live at home anymore.

Long story short -- we are in the hospital tonight with another UTI and the attendant madness that goes with it... exacerbated by Phenergan, an anti-nausea drug that seems to have completely wiped all reason from her mind. She is hateful, threatening, demanding, violent... I havrn't slept in 40-some hours, and once she was settled in here, she agreed I should go home and get some sleep. But an hour later, the nurse called and said Mom was demanding that I come back. I could hear Mom melting down in the background, and a second nurse yelping in pain as Mom hit her. When I talked to her, she made all sorts of hysterical accusations, threatened to call the police, and insisted I come back. I explained that it was almost midnight, I had already taken two sleeping pills, and there was a terrible storm and some of the streets were flooding, and begged her to understand how badly I needed to sleep. She told me "Fine, I 'll just have a heart attack and it'll be YOUR fault."

On the way back, I thought I was seeing a pedestrian overpass ahead of me... ans only realuzed at the last komoment that it was a semi slowly crossing the road. Almost skidded under the thing.

Came back and Mom wouldn't talk to me, and thrn wouldn't STOP telling me what a bitch I am... ghey finally got a sitter to keeo her from falling when she fights to leave and I came doen here to a waiting room. Now she's screaming, i have to go
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Dear "Sleepless"...this might be hard to ear...Just Do It!
Get recommendations from the hospital, friend(s), other professional, or 'research' for the best place for her age; dementia level; and psychiatric illness AND Sign her up!
She'll enjoy being among others like herself. She won't remember she said she'd kill herself. Don't worry about how she's gonna feel or what she's gonna think because, 'she does not remember from one minute to the next"
At THIS moment in time, you are risking both her and your health and safety. You gotta take care of yourself or You Will leave this earth before she.
Trust me, I know it'll be difficult, but you gotta do what you gotta do...Put on your Oxygen Mask, FIRST. You can't help her until you help yourself.
Keep Hanging Tough...You CAN Do It!
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I reached that point too even though she wasn't living with me.  She was alone in a house. Vascular dementia, HTN, CAD.  We hired sitters at first. Then when she required 24/7 sitter coverage for safety, we had to move her to Assisted Living. After a major heart attack there & loss of ability to walk, we were more or less forced with SNF placement.  I wasn't physically up to having her live with me and my 2 sisters didn't offer., but  , honestly, at that point, I don't think they were up to it either.  The adult children get to the point that they begin to have their own health issues-- I had mine, my sisters had theirs.  Sometimes our parents live longer than expected, resulting in aging adult "children".  Even though I had always told myself I'll never put her in a Nursing home, I just couldn't have handled her by myself . I was physically, emotionally exhausted.  What helped is knowing that,  given normal mental faculties, my Mom would not have wanted to me to put more strain on myself.  She used to always say to me "you need to lie down and rest your back"   We were fortunate that Mom was always very nice (once we got the delusions controlled with a low dose Depakote)   You would not be selfish to place her in a SNF or Assisted Living.   A compromise with the SNF is  we hired PT sitters when it became obvious that the care there was suboptimal.  They also helped our Mom socialize and became her friends which was a blessing in what turned out to be her last year.  See if you can come up with a compromise to get some immediate relief.  It sounds like you are close to a breaking point.  And if you haven't already tried it, a very low dose Depakote (125mg/d) controlled Mom's delusions. She had not tolerated Aricept , nor Namenda,   so the Depakote was really a godsend.  God Bless and I hope you can get some help very soon.
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