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Thanks for all your inputs... situation is my mother has dementia. My husband and myself were sole providers for mom for 3 years with no help from any siblings finicially or to offer help watching her. They would not even come out to visit her. Due to our home being flood and not able to give her 24 hour care we admitted her into a NH. My sister is can not handle my mother unless she is drunk. She doesn't have the patience with forgetting stuff or remembering anything. My sister is very unstable. I told the NH that she is not to take mother any where's without my knowledge or permission. Come to find out they missed up and let my sister check her out for 5 hours without my knowledgement.
Thanks for the helpful clarification. It sounds like if you haven't done so already, I would take guardianship of her and cut off visits to the sibling. Another wise move on top of that is to move her to another facility, maybe even further away from where the sibling lives. Don't tell the sibling where your mom is
If your sibling is acting out and not capable of taking your mother out for whatever reason, then you should act. But lots of people have bipolar disease and have lived productive lives. Talk to your sib and figure something out.
I have knowledge of the bipolar disease. My sister will not get any help for it. She would rather get drunk. I am trying to protect my mother from harms way. I am not saying she can not visit her at the NH. Just don't leave the facility with her.
I once knew someone with bipolar, and they maintained it very well. The person was on medication and they didn't drink. You would've never known they had bipolar because it was so well-maintained. Anytime you're taking medication to maintain any condition, it's always best to keep up with the doses unless the medication starts causing some sort of dangerous side effects. Bipolar disorder can be very well-managed. It doesn't have to define the person as long as the person and their doctor has it under control.
jewels1809, I think your post would have caused less controversy if you had said "How do I keep my active alcoholic sister from taking mother on outings?" That would make it more clear the kind of problems you are worried about.
In any case, legally you would have to have guardianship or a court order to keep someone from visiting your mom. In my experience, care centers 1) try to cooperate with the reasonable wishes of the family member who seems to be responsible, especially if they have POA and 2) don't generally have the staff to guarantee they can enforce a request about who can leave the building with a resident.
I'm surprised that your sister, who has trouble relating to your mother with dementia, even wants to leave the building with her. What's that about?
BTW, I think your desire to allow your sister to visit your mom but to prevent her from taking mom out without your knowledge and approval is right on-target. You don't want to punish your sister or your mother. You just want to keep Mom safe.
Sometimes I reach out to this group just for support, and to hear that everything is going to be OK. That's not happening for Jewels right now...and given that dementia is ALSO a mental illness, I find the debate around bipolar disorder and alcoholism a tad ironic. Let's face it, nobody's perfect! It helps to remember that we go into this with good intentions, and can get overzealous in trying to control the situation. Can we stop all harm? Probably not. Has any harm come to your mother yet from being with the alcoholic sibling? Is she driving while drunk? If not, what's the worst that could happen? Maybe it is a problem that needs to be fixed, maybe it's not. There are times when it's good to take a deep breath and a step back.
foxxmolder: I'm guessing that you love the "X Files?" Thank you so very much for your rant to put me down! I really DO NOT appreciate that! And yes, I LOVE llamas. Your post can't put me in a bad mood. You tried, but you failed! I am educated on the disease that is clinical depression and it isn't pretty. However, IT IS NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!! And btw, you spelled the actor's screen name incorrectly, if indeed you were an X File fan.
ferris1: WOW! You are very much incorrect! I just so happen to live with a person (my husband) who suffers from inherited clinical depression. I am very educated on the subject of mental illness as I also have a bipolar friend. Sadly, this woman also developed Lupus, kidney disease and a host of other issues. So when I saw your post, I said "really?' "You've got to be joking," because you, yourself didn't read the OP's concern..And no mental illness sometimes not so "easily maintained."
foxxmolder: There is absolutely NO NEED to feel sorry for me! Believe me, I've seen mental illness at its worst! So please just stop your tirade. Thank you!
I want to apologize to you, LL. There was really no need for me to go off on you like I did. My only lame excuse is that for 3 years I have dealt with 2 older brothers that have made my mom's life horrible. Her pain each day over their actions and words in 2013 and 2014 just goes on and on. I can't do anything for her....but how I have tried. The are both "mentally healthy". My mom never wants to be with them again. (as of this moment...who knows if the therapist, other caregiver, or anyone will change her mind.)
Once again, I want to apologize. Each one of us on this site has our own cross to carry as we care for our loved one. There is no reason for me to respond as I did and I made that mistake. I admit it.
ps. LL, Fox Mulder was taken back in 1995 when my late husband tried to get it. So was....Fox Muulder, Fox Molder, and a number of other usernames he tried to get. FINALLY he got through Foxxmolder......he wasn't a quitter! (I want to apologize about my insult about Llamas! I love watching them and especially like how they hum.)
foxxmolder: Thank you! That's okay. I very much appreciate the apology and accept it. Yes, we all have sometimes MAJOR challenges in taking care of our loved ones. I'm so sorry to hear that your two older brothers have made your mom's life horrible. My late mother lived in Massachusetts; I live in Maryland. She dug her heels in BIG TIME and said "I'm so happy that I'm living in my own home." Now I can understand that mentality to a point. But like "when were you going to tell me you started a fire in the microwave and that you fell twice?," I asked her. She lived there by herself. She had wet macular degeneration, congestive heart failure, artrial fibulation and blood pressure of 60 over 40. That left me no choice but to leave my Maryland home and move in with her to her Massachusetts home for an extended period. She suffered an ischemic stroke while she was at the NH that they were kicking her out of! Yes, no joke! I'm glad to hear that you like llamas! That's funny about the male star of the X Files screen name being taken on this forum! I guess he was one popular guy! I'm sorry to hear that your husband is deceased. I hope there will be a solution to your mom's care. Good wishes!
I take it that you do not get on with your sister and there may be good reason for that. But if the outing is pleasent for you mother, you might grit your teeth and allow it to happen. If however the outing is an excuse for a spending spree for the sister, you (as POA) can limit the visits to the nursing home property.
LLamalover47: You sure know how to insult people, don't you? Some of me wants to "take back" my apology to you. Since that is not like me, I will just have to explain as best as I can. With your comment that "no person with bipolar should EVER be allowed to take care of an elderly person" you alone set off a firestorm. The poster did NOT mention at the time of her first post that alcohol was involved or that she was irresponsible or that there was a problem with her mother being safe. You said in your response: No bipolar person should EVER be allowed to take their mother out of the NH....WHAT IF THEY HAVE A MANIC EPISODE???"
This is the comment me and Ferris1 are offended about. (I shouldn't say that....I don't know Ferris1, I am just going back over these 48 comments and trying to figure out why you have asked for and I guess feel denied an apology from her.
Since this is a public forum, with new people joining everyday, every hour, every minute (and anyone can go back and look at questions asked/answers given at anytime).......I would not want to have anyone look at this post and make decisions about keeping this site as a source of comfort, support, and education.
PLEASE "take back" your comment about how "No bipolar person should take their parent out of a NH for the day.... WHAT IF THEY HAVE A MANIC EPISODE?!?!?"
You have yet to "apologize" for this silly statement. (as far as I can see out of the 48 responses to this original post).
I have to let you, in turn, know..... I am still waiting for YOUR apology about those with bipolar and what they should or shouldn't be allowed to do with their parents
Untreated mental illness can be a bad thing. But the stigma of mental illness can be even worse - many of us seen people ask the question of whether a person with even an optimally treated mental illness should be allowed to ______ fill in the blank...and at least one person who assumes they are themselves blessed with unalterable excellent mental health inevitably answers no - fire them (even without cause - make something up! - even in a physician group recently, someone found out a nanny was taking a PRESCRIBED antidepressant and felt uncomfortable having them around her children after years of excellent service and a strong relationship!!) deny them, exclude them. I can't begin to tell you how those of us who care for or about people with mental illness, or have been depressed themselves (me) feel devastation for them, as if the reforms of the last two centuries had never happened.
The plain truth is this sister's bipolar disorder should not have been the prime focus of the question. The fact she has bipolar disorder is not the reason her having Mom on outings solo is not a good idea. Jewels, you have already done the right thing.
It is never easy to find the right words to correct a fellow human being, a friend or potential friend who is in the same boat with us on any kind of bigotry - but if they are friends and they could do better, it should be tried. Bigotry comes from fear and ignorance that temporarily overrides reason, or maybe from a misguided desire to be able to understand and categorize people more easily by reducing them to stereotypes. This can be forgiven; we are all human; by forgiving and still correcting as gently yet firmly as we can, this can be overcome.
Jewels1809: I would like to take back my comment, but posts can't be deleted. I'm sorry that I seemed to have offended so many. That is NOT who I am at all. Thank you for the clarification of your sister.
foxxmolder: Well, thank you, but I felt like a punching bag. You're welcome for the apology. I mean this forum is supposed to be a helpful site. I'd like to keep it that way.
It doesn't sound like "bipolar" is at all relevant here. Drunkenness is. Period. Blood alcohol level can be detected. Even smelled via a witness, such as a nurse at the facility if the sister comes to visit. What nurse would let a drunk person take a patient out? Or even show up at the facility? If I were a nurse who worked there and a visitor showed up drunk who acted irresponsibly (I actually witnessed this once) then by all means, the nurse might go to her supervisor or confront the patient being visited, and then, the visitor might get kicked out based on drunkenness and asked not to return again. In the incident I witnessed, the patient had capacity, so she was involved and told that if he came back, he needed to be sober. I saw and heard the whole thing, actually. The patient insisted he was indeed sober. On and on....Anyway, if the sister is clearly drunk without question when she shows up (by smell according to more than one witness) then there really is no argument here. She shouldn't even be driving over there and back if she's that drunk, either. Bipolar is irrelevant. It's just a shrink's diagnosis. I'm far more concerned with the effect of booze, which measurable and of course unsafe for a frail elderly person and the sister, too. Send her home on the bus or in a cab and tell her to sober up, and not show up drunk again.
I completely agree that the stigma of mental illness can be at least as, sometimes more, destructive and damaging than the condition itself.
But before that makes me sound all cuddly and politically correct, it isn't just the unfair treatment of the person with a mental health condition that troubles me (although yes of course it does). But in terms of its impact on others, stigma leads to shame, secrecy and unwillingness to seek treatment, so that what you end up with is a very unhappy and unpredictable person at large in your community and a heap of denial all round. Not good.
Wow! A question that keeps on giving! I wonder how many people on here have a mental disability, collect benefits, and are put in charge of the parent just because...."well, you have nothing better to do." or "you have all the time in the world since you do not work", or "you are with Mom/Dad all the time and you are manipulating her, coercing her, and turning Mom against us" Oh joy! I guess if anyone responds to this comment or says "helpful answer", I will start a new question on this site relating to bipolar, or any other mental disability, while also taking care of a parent. (or how about taking care of a parent who takes meds, or doesn't, etc.) So much education, support, and hope can be shared on this site!
Foxx, i certainly think that you are on to something there. It's often the unemployed, underemployed, works from home or on benefits sibling who seems to get roped into caregiving. I think it's a good discussion topic!
Foxx or Babalou, please DO START a new thread. I'd love to hear more on this, as I'm the "works from home" sibling that ended up taking on the role of caregiver. Might be interesting to see other perspectives on how to handle the impact of caregiving on our professional self-esteem, and/or how to reposition ourselves within the family as "not the person who now does everything for everyone."
I went ahead and told my personal story on another question posted on this site. It is under Family/Relationships and specifically speaks of mental illness (specifically bipolar, although many other illnesses fall under the same problem of caregiving), stigma, ability to care, etc. I hope to be able to answer questions about this topic along the way. Thanks to EVERYONE who has supported me through a VERY difficult three years of caring for my mom and a family divided.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
In any case, legally you would have to have guardianship or a court order to keep someone from visiting your mom. In my experience, care centers 1) try to cooperate with the reasonable wishes of the family member who seems to be responsible, especially if they have POA and 2) don't generally have the staff to guarantee they can enforce a request about who can leave the building with a resident.
I'm surprised that your sister, who has trouble relating to your mother with dementia, even wants to leave the building with her. What's that about?
Once again, I want to apologize. Each one of us on this site has our own cross to carry as we care for our loved one. There is no reason for me to respond as I did and I made that mistake. I admit it.
(I want to apologize about my insult about Llamas! I love watching them and especially like how they hum.)
I'm glad to hear that you like llamas! That's funny about the male star of the X Files screen name being taken on this forum! I guess he was one popular guy! I'm sorry to hear that your husband is deceased. I hope there will be a solution to your mom's care. Good wishes!
With your comment that "no person with bipolar should EVER be allowed to take care of an elderly person" you alone set off a firestorm. The poster did NOT mention at the time of her first post that alcohol was involved or that she was irresponsible or that there was a problem with her mother being safe. You said in your response: No bipolar person should EVER be allowed to take their mother out of the NH....WHAT IF THEY HAVE A MANIC EPISODE???"
This is the comment me and Ferris1 are offended about. (I shouldn't say that....I don't know Ferris1, I am just going back over these 48 comments and trying to figure out why you have asked for and I guess feel denied an apology from her.
Since this is a public forum, with new people joining everyday, every hour, every minute (and anyone can go back and look at questions asked/answers given at anytime).......I would not want to have anyone look at this post and make decisions about keeping this site as a source of comfort, support, and education.
PLEASE "take back" your comment about how "No bipolar person should take their parent out of a NH for the day.... WHAT IF THEY HAVE A MANIC EPISODE?!?!?"
You have yet to "apologize" for this silly statement. (as far as I can see out of the 48 responses to this original post).
I have to let you, in turn, know..... I am still waiting for YOUR apology about those with bipolar and what they should or shouldn't be allowed to do with their parents
Thank you for the apology.
Untreated mental illness can be a bad thing. But the stigma of mental illness can be even worse - many of us seen people ask the question of whether a person with even an optimally treated mental illness should be allowed to ______ fill in the blank...and at least one person who assumes they are themselves blessed with unalterable excellent mental health inevitably answers no - fire them (even without cause - make something up! - even in a physician group recently, someone found out a nanny was taking a PRESCRIBED antidepressant and felt uncomfortable having them around her children after years of excellent service and a strong relationship!!) deny them, exclude them. I can't begin to tell you how those of us who care for or about people with mental illness, or have been depressed themselves (me) feel devastation for them, as if the reforms of the last two centuries had never happened.
The plain truth is this sister's bipolar disorder should not have been the prime focus of the question. The fact she has bipolar disorder is not the reason her having Mom on outings solo is not a good idea. Jewels, you have already done the right thing.
It is never easy to find the right words to correct a fellow human being, a friend or potential friend who is in the same boat with us on any kind of bigotry - but if they are friends and they could do better, it should be tried. Bigotry comes from fear and ignorance that temporarily overrides reason, or maybe from a misguided desire to be able to understand and categorize people more easily by reducing them to stereotypes. This can be forgiven; we are all human; by forgiving and still correcting as gently yet firmly as we can, this can be overcome.
But before that makes me sound all cuddly and politically correct, it isn't just the unfair treatment of the person with a mental health condition that troubles me (although yes of course it does). But in terms of its impact on others, stigma leads to shame, secrecy and unwillingness to seek treatment, so that what you end up with is a very unhappy and unpredictable person at large in your community and a heap of denial all round. Not good.
I wonder how many people on here have a mental disability, collect benefits, and are put in charge of the parent just because...."well, you have nothing better to do." or
"you have all the time in the world since you do not work", or "you are with Mom/Dad all the time and you are manipulating her, coercing her, and turning Mom against us" Oh joy! I guess if anyone responds to this comment or says "helpful answer", I will start a new question on this site relating to bipolar, or any other mental disability, while also taking care of a parent. (or how about taking care of a parent who takes meds, or doesn't, etc.) So much education, support, and hope can be shared on this site!