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I’m her POA and feel she doesn’t need that much money since she doesn’t go anywhere. I think she is giving it to my bum of a brother who hasn’t worked in over 10 years that lives with her. Any advice?
I hate to say it, but if you think your mom is giving your brother the money then your probably right! My mother went through 89,000 in less than 3 yrs. She doesn't remember what she did with all that money, but I do- to my bum brother who hasn't worked in 20 yrs. I seen him with 2 pairs of $300.00 shoes, new clothes and what-nots. As a POA you really can't override your mom, but you sure can stop the bleeding! How? Can you transfer some of her money into another acct? Example, from her checking acct to her savings acct! That is what I started doing. Online banking is great for that. Make excuses on why you should go to the bank and make the withdrawal or just do it and tell mom here is a $100.00 I thought you might need some cash so I went and withdrew some money for you. Just act like it was no biggie! Do you pay mom's bills for her or does she do it? I ask because once I started to pay my mother's bills I started to tell her that she only has xyz amount for the month. I did it slowly...in time my brother started to get less and less and now he gets nothing! See where I am going with this?! Is it wrong to keep my mother from her own money...maybe, or is it wrong to sit back and let someone use her for her money and watch her lose everything because her child is selfish? I don't have the answer for you. All I know is that my mother was going to lose my dad's house...her home and my brother didn't care if she became homeless as long as he got what he wanted! I could not let that happen!!
Think outside the box! I wish you the best of luck!!!
I know someone who blew through $100K and said she didn't know what she spent it on. I feel badly that she made poor decisions, but I'm unaware of anything I or anyone else could have done to stop her. This lady had made a lifetime of poor decisions, so losing track of a large balance was nothing new - strange as that sounds. I suspect a good portion of it was given away little by little to a relative and elder finds it's easier to not "remember" than it would be to explain that she threw good money after bad and gave it to someone who would keep coming back until the well dried up. Her $100K is her own business but when she's approaching me to balance her budget, she's approaching me as if as if I am an ATM who will give her cash (now that she had none left), she's approaching me for general financial advice about several large debts she owes.... it's hard to proceed without knowing where that $100K went and what logic was used. Elders can be really good at hiding certain things and money matters are at or near the top of the list.
until she’s declared mental incompetent, she can do what she wants with her money. You being POA doesn’t give you the power to override her decisions. Best you can do is try to convince her to turn Over all the financials to her.
Dragonfly, I agree in principle that it's her money and (if she's mentally competent) can spend it as she likes BUT the money/caregiving trainwreck will eventually land on your doorstep so in some regards it IS your business that her money isn't wasted on her nere-do-well moocher adult son. At some point he may convince her to sign over financial PoA to him, as often happens.
I think you have to decide how much effort you want to put into trying to protect her money now so she isn't left destitute by a financial abuser who will disappear when the coffers are empty. Or, you can come to peace with it and agree that it is her money and she can squander it and she will then go on Medicaid and there'll be no funds for better care, Or you can resign your PoA and still love your mother but not care about her becoming destitute and your brother (or the county) managing her care until she passes. In my own actual experience I couldn't live with options 2 and 3 so I opted for 1. Shell38314 gave you good advice to move forward in that direction. I would take further steps to lock down and protect all her sensitive financial info and assets (checkbooks, credit/debit cards, sign up for credit alerts, have her mail go to a PO box, etc). You won't regret doing it.
Does she have any inklings of cognitive decline? If I were you I'd get her in for a cognitive exam. This way, if she does have the beginnings you know how best to deal with her and her needs. Also, having an official diagnosis of dementia in her medical records will protect your PoA status from being changed by your brother since PoA can only be assigned by someone with a clear mind. I wish you all the best -- let us know how it goes!
Great advice on getting mom a cognitive exam. I did this for my mother, so now, I have a professional stating that my mother has "Atypical VaD" and that she can no longer live alone nor should she handle her own finances. I have it in writing!
A few questions for you, Dragonfly: - Is your mother competent? If she's competent she can do what she wants. However, nothing says you have to help her get to the bank for her money.
- You have her POA, but is it invoked? In other words are you legally allowed to act on her behalf? What I mean is, my neighbor has my POA, but it's not valid for her to act on my behalf unless I'm declared mentally incompetent by my doc. If you feel she is incompetent, check the wording on the POA to see what actions to take to have her declared incompetent.
For my mom I (along with my mom to sign to open the account since it was in her name with me as a signatory) I opened a checking account. With her dementia she immediately forgot all about this account. I moved her SS and her pension to this account and set up all utilities to be auto-paid.
I kept her original savings account as that's what she'd had for decades. She was proud she had her savings passbook. I kept about $200 in there for her to be driven by me or my sister. She would take out about $100, pay for lunch and gas. It made her feel in charge to be able to do that.
About your brother, check your state's laws for vulnerable persons either online or by calling Elder Services agencies in your state or county. If your mother falls under those laws, she might be in a protected class from people who would taken advantage of because of their affliction. (I became Mom's POA after we learned my niece took advantage of Mom's dementia by telling sob stories how she was broke, later admitting she did it because Mom couldn't remember it. She ended up draining all of Mom's money. Kansas, where Mom lived, had such a protective law. I warned my niece if she tried that again, I WOULD call the police and file charges.)
If your mother is incompetent and you can invoke the POA, you can make changes to your mother's financial accounts to protect her finances that can/will be used for her benefit. And you can warn your brother that your mother is protected from financial abuse.
Goo luck, Dragonfly. I remember how I felt when I learned of Mom's financial situation. Good for you for looking out for her.
I agree with other posts here, but please note that there are different types of PoA. Financial PoA allows you to handle her finances, and healthcare allows you to handle medical matters. It has to say that specifically in black and white or the bank may not permit you to make changes to her bank account.
Before you invoke your PoA, pls be sure she is officially diagnosed by a physician to be incompetent of handling her affairs alone. When that is done, everything else is easier to accomplish.
POA only let's you act as tho you are carrying out what the person would do themselves if they were capable. You cannot go against their wishes. If you need control, then you have to get guardianship or become conservator. You would need to go to court for that.
I got my P O A by applying for it and getting my husband to OK it. He has Alzheimers and at the time was capable of sighing off on it. I guess I was lucky but if you are in this situation and do not want to declare your mother incompetent then forget about her money, it is hers, not yours. You can see to it that she gets the physical care she NEEDS and your obligations are met. This advice came from a visiting nurse who took me aside outside my parents’ house. I was completely left out of my fathers will after my mother died and I would do the same things all over again. Money just isn’t the most important thing in life. Peace of mind and my health were and still are numero one!!! Get a lawyer if necessary just to see what your options are but stop complaint and do something, even changing your attitude about what is most important in your life. Is it her money or yours. I received nothing from my father’s estate and I relish the fact that his money meant so little to me. The freedom I felt and still feel is exhilarating to say the least, I am doing fine financially without his money and without his judgements. I would do it all the same again, again, and again!
Yes! They sell money guns on Amazon (I gather for strippers) but the “test” money they send is a stack of the most realistic $100 Bills I have ever seen.
I had my Dad for 7 years and now have built a small community of Licensed Family Care Homes for seniors with dementia.
Now each of my 18 residents has several hundred dollars in their wallet or purse. They all feel very wealthy.
If the “bum of a brother” is living with her, is he also the caretaker ? He deserves something for that. But if you are carrying the load, you deserve something too. One person can’t do it all, and mothers of certain generations regard their sons as idols & their daughters as their servants. I lived thru this. Take on as much as is fair to you, and hire for the rest. Stand your ground! Your life has to come first - or you’re no good to anyone! Best of lucky & much empathy!
He is not her caregiver. She can take care of herself physically but not mentally capable of handling anything. I’ve been taking care of all medical and financial matters for her for years now. She does have a credit card that can be used for groceries or whatever she needs. My brother knows I’m watching him now and he’s mad about that. She had meds to be picked up on Mother’s Day, which is .2 miles down the road. He told her he didn’t have gas in his car. I had to drive from out of town to pick up for her. It’s just ridiculous!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Think outside the box!
I wish you the best of luck!!!
I think you have to decide how much effort you want to put into trying to protect her money now so she isn't left destitute by a financial abuser who will disappear when the coffers are empty. Or, you can come to peace with it and agree that it is her money and she can squander it and she will then go on Medicaid and there'll be no funds for better care, Or you can resign your PoA and still love your mother but not care about her becoming destitute and your brother (or the county) managing her care until she passes. In my own actual experience I couldn't live with options 2 and 3 so I opted for 1. Shell38314 gave you good advice to move forward in that direction. I would take further steps to lock down and protect all her sensitive financial info and assets (checkbooks, credit/debit cards, sign up for credit alerts, have her mail go to a PO box, etc). You won't regret doing it.
Does she have any inklings of cognitive decline? If I were you I'd get her in for a cognitive exam. This way, if she does have the beginnings you know how best to deal with her and her needs. Also, having an official diagnosis of dementia in her medical records will protect your PoA status from being changed by your brother since PoA can only be assigned by someone with a clear mind. I wish you all the best -- let us know how it goes!
- Is your mother competent? If she's competent she can do what she wants. However, nothing says you have to help her get to the bank for her money.
- You have her POA, but is it invoked? In other words are you legally allowed to act on her behalf? What I mean is, my neighbor has my POA, but it's not valid for her to act on my behalf unless I'm declared mentally incompetent by my doc. If you feel she is incompetent, check the wording on the POA to see what actions to take to have her declared incompetent.
For my mom I (along with my mom to sign to open the account since it was in her name with me as a signatory) I opened a checking account. With her dementia she immediately forgot all about this account. I moved her SS and her pension to this account and set up all utilities to be auto-paid.
I kept her original savings account as that's what she'd had for decades. She was proud she had her savings passbook. I kept about $200 in there for her to be driven by me or my sister. She would take out about $100, pay for lunch and gas. It made her feel in charge to be able to do that.
About your brother, check your state's laws for vulnerable persons either online or by calling Elder Services agencies in your state or county. If your mother falls under those laws, she might be in a protected class from people who would taken advantage of because of their affliction. (I became Mom's POA after we learned my niece took advantage of Mom's dementia by telling sob stories how she was broke, later admitting she did it because Mom couldn't remember it. She ended up draining all of Mom's money. Kansas, where Mom lived, had such a protective law. I warned my niece if she tried that again, I WOULD call the police and file charges.)
If your mother is incompetent and you can invoke the POA, you can make changes to your mother's financial accounts to protect her finances that can/will be used for her benefit. And you can warn your brother that your mother is protected from financial abuse.
Goo luck, Dragonfly. I remember how I felt when I learned of Mom's financial situation. Good for you for looking out for her.
Before you invoke your PoA, pls be sure she is officially diagnosed by a physician to be incompetent of handling her affairs alone. When that is done, everything else is easier to accomplish.
I had my Dad for 7 years and now have built a small community of Licensed Family Care Homes for seniors with dementia.
Now each of my 18 residents has several hundred dollars in their wallet or purse. They all feel very wealthy.
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