Hi,
My name is Kay. This is my first post here. I'm a live in caregiver for my elderly father, he's 87, I'm 46. He's frail, has arthritis and balance issue, so he walks with a cane, occasionally a walker on bad days, and no longer drives, but is otherwise in good health for his age, he just gets a little frustrated and impatient sometimes. He is able to dress and bathe and shave himself without help, prepares his own breakfast and lunch, I do housework, errands, shopping, take him to any appointments, and cook dinner, and I'm here for anything he needs. He is not on any prescription medications so there's no medical regime. We have a very nosy neighbor who is a retired home health aide. She has convinced herself my father needs home health care and she will not leave us alone about it. She has insulted me repeatedly about a different matter, and is just a nosy, bossy person who thinks she knows everything about everything and if we don't keep the door locked will just barge in uninvited. My father wants me to forbid her to come over anymore, to tell her we don't want to be friends with her any longer, she is upsetting both of us, and I want this too. I do not want or need someone like this in my life. I work at home, at night after my father is asleep, and I have a work project that is very important to me, and has a deadline attached, and I am trying to keep things as simple and peaceful as possible. But I'm afraid if I forbid her to visit she might falsely report me to some authority just to turn my life upside down and make it more stressful and since she is a retired home health aide her word might carry more weight than mine or my father's. I just don't know what to do! I am very stressed and worried.
People who file false abuse and neglect claims can be prosecuted in most states. As a “mandated” reporter, your neighbor knows this.
I recommend that you let your father be the one to tell her that her interference in his life is not appreciated and if you and your dad need her help at some future date, he or you will contact her. If she continues to come to the house, lock the door and don’t answer the bell. It sounds like this woman may be angling for a private duty job at your house.
1. I wouldn't encourage the OP to have ANY verbal contact, telling the neighbor this or that. That doesn't reflect the desire to keep this woman away. Kayla needs to sever ALL contact. I still think an attorney could write a forceful no contact letter, putting her on notice.
2. When her father sits outside, if she can't be with him, she can give him a duplicate key, check every 5 minutes or so, but keep the door locked so the neighbor can't sneak in. I hesitate to suggest locking the door b/c it appears as though she may be locking her father out. If she can, it's better to sit outside with him. Then she can be there to support him when the woman comes calling.
3. I still think that a written demand for no contact needs to be considered. She doesn't have to hire an attorney; she can do this herself and send it certified mail, return receipt requested.
4. Getting a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) isn't a "piece of cake. Kayla and her father would have to appear in court, before a judge, providing evidence on why a TRO would be appropriate. She would need documented evidence, dates of trespass and notifications to stay away. She would need to provide evidence of the woman's refusal to comply. She would more than likely also need to explain why this woman is unwelcome, beyond just being a busybody.
And she would more than likely have to have legal counsel to file a request for a TRO hearing and represent her. Service of Notice of Hearing would also be required, by someone paid to serve it.
5. A PPO (Personal Protection Order) would be easier to get, if they're used in her County. In my area, my father and went to the County Courthouse, met with a County attorney who offered insight and guidance. We then executed the order, with a variety of restraining options. This attorney took the order to a judge, who made a few changes, then signed it. I don't even recall if we needed to go to the courtroom or just wait somewhere until the PPO was signed.
6. Police from what I've read are overburdened now, having lost some of their own to the pandemic. This kind of situation may not rate high on their radar given other more threatening situations that might be occurring. But I also think that one of an attending officer's first questions would be what Kayla and her father have done to tell this woman she's not welcome. He/she may even ask if they've sent written notice to the woman.
Point #2 that the OP should not wait until this woman gets to their front door. Trespassing means anywhere on their property, not just inside their home. She needs to know she's not welcomed on the property AT ALL, EVER because otherwise they are sending a mixed message to someone who seems mentally disordered. No trespassing anywhere on their property is a much more clear legal boundary.
Therefore IMO 911 should be called every single time even if the OP doesn't think the police will come or it's not "life threatening". The calls are an official record of the instances of her trespassing if nothing else. This is part of the proof building necessary for a restraining order, should it get to that point.
I still think a Ring doorbell and security cameras would be very useful here and in general.
"Trespassing Defined
A property owner has the right to use his or her property in any manner that is not otherwise prohibited by law. Part of this right includes being able to use the property exclusively and preventing other people from entering the property without permission. Trespassing is a crime where someone else enters or stays on the property without consent or permission.
You commit a criminal trespass whenever you enter onto property which you know you do not have the right to enter, or remain on property after learning you do not have the right to be there. Trespassing can occur on both private and public property, and you do not have to receive a verbal warning that the property is off limits. Even if you enter a structure or property with the owner's permission, you can still commit trespassing if the owner later orders you to leave but you choose to remain, for example as a house guest who refuses to leave."
Source:
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Tresspassing.htm
My mom locked her doors so automatically that I often found myself locked out when I was cutting the lawn or doing some other outside chores, although it was a little annoying at the time I really didn't mind. Make it a habit to keep a key with you and always lock that door, it's only a few seconds of inconvenience for you and your father to unlock the door. And if your father won't go along with this then I'd begin to think that he is much less reluctant to entertain this woman than he pretends to be.
"My father has asked her to knock first so she doesn't startle me, she did this once when I had a pot of boiling water, but she ignores him."
So you have already addressed the issue under the assumption that she is "normal" and it didn't work. Now you need to stop "asking" her because it is obvious she is either mentally disordered, deaf, or nefarious.
"There is a law that covers these situations... It is called trespass. Many times, it carries a criminal penalty.
If the neighbor is on your property doing something particularly offensive or dangerous, calling the police is the best and most immediate way of dealing with them. Otherwise, document their trespasses and file a police report. Get dates and times. If you can get photos or statements from people who witnessed the event, that will be of tremendous help. Your neighbor can be fined and ordered to stay off your property."
Source:
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/neighbor-disputes-what-to-do-when-your-neighbor-invades-your-property
Instruct your father that when he is on the porch if he sees her coming over to shout at her to stop because he doesn't want her on his property at all for any reason. Make a scene so that the other neighbors witness it. Put up No Trespassing signs that face her property. Call the police and keep calling them every time she steps foot in his yard. I think you are hoping for a "nice" resolution to this problem but I don't think there is one. If she's doing this to you and your dad you can be sure she's doing it to others. If you're not willing to do any of these "uncomfortable" things then you will continue to suffer her behavior.
She's aiming to marry him and take over.
I would drop the nice act. I would lay hands on her and push her out the door. Forcefully. You are entitled to peace in your own home.
I might consider calling the non-emergency police line to find out if they can have a chat with her, and also what you are entitled to do in your own home--like give her a swift kick in the pants.
Consider cameras.
What does anyone else in the neighbourhood have to say about her? Are you and your dad her only vict - sorry, friends?
she barges into your home. She is abusive and causing stress to the elder.
Attempting to get a restraining order would be a waste of time and money.
Seems to me she is trying to get to Dad. Maybe she thinks he has money. Please give us an update. We love to know how things work out.
What you say makes me suspect even more that she is - dread words - "only trying to help." She isn't concerned that you're neglecting your father. She's concerned that you're neglecting *you.* And you're right, she does think she knows better, and perhaps not wholly without foundation because she will have seen a great many stressful family situations - but she has no business making assumptions about yours. She is intruding.
It is clear that she is no respecter of boundaries or differences, and these need to be brought more and more firmly to her attention until she begins to take heed.
Is she retired and missing her old vocation, do you think? Have you and your father become her project?
Mischievous thought: is there anyone locally you can divert her towards as being in greater need? Gossip freely!
Next time she appears unannounced: "Mrs Busybee, we'll be delighted to welcome you another time but please respect our privacy. This is not a convenient moment. I'd appreciate it if you could come back when invited."
Do not let her be so pushy. No need to be nice and polite to someone so rude. How would she like it if you barged into her house??
You're only going to have to push back hard one time and it should be taken care of. If not, I seriously would call the police. Not 911, but the non-emergency number. I would also document the date/time of any future interactions with her just in case you need it.
If APS shows up, yes it will be a hassle but so be it. I'd say Oh I see my nosy neighbor finally made good on her threat to report us to you!
I'm kind of a privacy nut so I would not want to let them in but handle that as you see fit.
Why do some people have to be such pains? Aren't you already dealing with enough?
Good luck.
I am a 24/7 caregiver. Most of the time I get groceries delivered. Occasionally, I run to the very near dollar store - 20 minutes tops being gone. I have found out that the minute I get in the car, my mom calls someone. One of the siblings and quite often the neighbor who lives a few houses a way. She will ask him to come and visit with her while I'm gone. I leave her sitting in her chair and if I know I need to be out about an hour, I put her in the bed. She says she'll stay there, but I've found her back in the living room when I get back and the neighbor guy in the house visiting with her. He finally told me that she calls as soon as I get in the car. If he did not know me, and the situation, as well as he does, I can see him thinking I am leaving her alone and should have someone with her. My mom does not have any sort of dementia and uses a rolling walker to get back and forth on her own all day long for bathroom runs. I tell her to go pee before I walk out the door so she doesn't have to go before I return. She just wants me to be in the house sitting in front of her all day and plays on the phone if I'm not in the house. Thankfully, I have several good neighbors that will help me out when an errand or my own personal appts will take several hours. All their phone numbers are also on her alert button should she fall or call for help. Just wonder if your errands might be a little bit long considering his fall factor from a professional caregiver point of view.
Did y'all ever pay her to help him out, prior to your arrival on the scene? Maybe she just wants to make a few bucks. Before I wrote her off completely, I would try to keep things neighborly. You never know when you might really need her help.
AND... to suggest that the nosy, intrusive neighbor could be a help at some point, is just reckless. They don't want her there.
She probably thinks she's being helpful and supportive. Quite a lot of extremely annoying people do.
Is the unrelated matter anything important? - did you and she "have words" about it or are you just privately seething?
Is there a possibility that your father had depended on the retired caregiver in the past, prior to your arrival?
Maybe there was a romantic interest brewing, and she felt welcome before?
Your father may not want to mention this to you, or even admit to it.
Take charge, express his direction to forbid her entrance. Say it just outside the door. Those are his wishes. Ask her where she got any idea that she could just walk into someone's home. But you don't have to say that part.
In what way did she also feel it is okay to insult you?
”I’ll think about it!” Say it with a smile. Don’t say anything else. Just listen, and at the end say, “I’ll think about it!” It will only take a few times before she figures out that “I’ll think about it” = “Mind your own business”.
You know her assertion is wrong and you know he isn’t in danger or neglected so while yes it might be a PIA there really isn’t anything to fear by her reporting you if it came to that, especially since he sounds perfectly capable of speaking for himself. Being a retired Home Health Aid doesn’t give her or her views any special clout.
As I read this it occurred to me too that perhaps she is either looking for a convent job or needs to help so much it drives her too far.
Then walk her right back out of your home and close the door.
You could key your car alarm whenever she comes to the door. Then all the neighbors will be mad at you, but will observe her at your door. Maybe you will hear from other neighbors experiencing similar from her. A real nuisance.
No one's word can carry "more weight" than yours. Don't allow yourself to be bullied or frightened by anyone. You are in your own home, your first line of defense from any intruders. Your father has asked you to forbid her from coming over.
Worst case scenario, you could have an attorney write a letter (a one time expense).
If you are feeling powerless, I believe it is okay to borrow from others until you can stand up for yourself.
Make a note of the days and times she comes over, for future reference. Is there a pattern? Can you talk to her family if they visit?
The problem is the nosy neighbor, not you, not your father. You could call APS to say she is wandering and confused.
I sincerely hope that with us supporting you here, that you can speak up without fear.
I would then begin a documentation diary. Because if she is overboard then you may at any time now or in future get interference from APS. Ask your Dad to let you know so you can document any interference.
Wishing you luck.
For myself I might consider asking for her help and giving her small daily brief checks she can do on her own. For instance a 10 a.m. call to your Dad, or a daily stop at the doorway to say a brief Hi and how are you. Having these small tasks may make her feel a part of the team. However, if she is the true busy-body you would eventually have to go the same route I first mentioned anyway.
The best way to discredit her is to involve an agency which can make an independent assessment.
Also, keep the doors locked; maybe put up a "no trespassing" sign, and either send her a letter (certified mail) or ask an attorney to do it advising her in polite terms to "mind her own business."
If this busybody wants to report you to the authorities, let her. Someone reported my folks to the police for a welfare check, and the police asked to come in the house. They talked to each of my parents and asked to see the inside of their refrigerator to ensure they had adequate food. They also called me and my brother to ask if everything was OK. (I had been there earlier that day and was up there weekly! My brother lived a mile away.)
My father was mortified, and since he was still driving and doing all the grocery shopping, food preparation and laundry, plus attending church and Rotary meetings weekly, the whole thing was absurd, and the police said as much. We never did find out who called, but it was a nonstarter for the nosy person who called.
The only suggestion I'd make is to try to get Dad to go to the walker full-time. A cane is pretty useless over all, and if he starts to fall, he'll pivot and fall sideways. It doesn't help at all. A walker is more stable.
He'd walk right in when I was carrying groceries in, etc.
Came over all the time uninvited. Ran after me when I got mail, followed me to the store, etc.
Talked to the police, they said a restraining order was not possible under the circumstances according to the law in that state - so I figured out another way.
My solution: The next time he came to the door - I opened it - then SLAMMED it shut.
When I saw him in public, I turned around and walked away. Even left a shopping cart full of groceries once and left the store.
He got the message - and left me alone. Never bothered me again.
Lesson learned:
Some times you need to be very obnoxious with people and not worry about being polite or neighborly.
We tend to be too nice and that's not always a good thing.
Be firm, and get this behavior stopped by her once and for all.
Those Ring things look neat. Thinking about buying my own. Keep the door locked. The Ring thing will tape what is said. Next time she comes over tell her that you and Dad would rather she not visit anymore, maybe starting with I am sorry. She upsets Dad and you work from home and you are having a problem getting a project done. If she gets started, tell her you are really not interested because you are Dads Caregiver. If she continues to come over you will consider it harrassment and go from there. You may want to say, too, that if Dad needed a Caregiver you would not be hiring her.
Some people you have to be blunt with, thats the only way u can get thru. Yes, you will upset her or she will get mad. After the initial conversation, do not talk to her again. Just don't answer the door or the phone. If she continues, call the police and see what you can do about her. Maybe an officer talking to her will be enough.
If she calls APS, just allow them to investigate. They will find out that Dad is living in a clean house. He is clean and there is food in the frig and cabinets. And you are there. You explain to them how this woman is. She may need APS. You then have it on record.
If you've spoken to her about it already and she still ignores you, this is a problem. But I get the impression from your post that you haven't brought it up to her yet. Tell her exactly what you've told us here and lay out the boundaries in a diplomatic way. Then if she continues to roll over your boundaries you can begin to make the case for a restraining order. Or maybe she'll get the picture and back off. I'm partial to sending people messages in writing so there's proof of what was said and when and how they responded. So, consider asking for her email address. Maybe it's time to install a Ring camera doorbell and some other security measures (which may come in handy for your dad's care as well). He should pay for it.
If you ask her to stop and then she doesn't, then she gets warned by you with what will happen next (a call to the police for trespassing and invasion of privacy, etc). Then you must follow through with the consequences. She may not be just "nosey", but maybe has a mental health issue or is old enough to maybe have some cognitive issues herself. A Ring doorbell will provide all the proof you need. They are affordable and easy to install. Wishing you success!
Let her call APS
If you have nothing to worry about the investigation will lead no where.
continue taking care of your dad just as you have.
If there is an investigation welcome them, let them do what they need to do.
1. Invite her to call APS. Tell her you are pretty sure dad is getting all the help he needs but would be happy for a professional outside opinion. HER opinion is not the professional one.
2. Get dad a "needs assessme t" from the local Area Agency on Aging. Again, they will give a dispassionate professional opinion on dad's real needs.
Neither APS nor thr AAA is going to turn your life upside down.