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My father is terminal and was given 6 months. He has a life insurance policy but has been placed in the nursing home, will they become the beneficary of the policy? We live in Texas
Don't forget that for a veteran, your father can get a burial plot, opening and closing, a casket and a headstone for free. It is just the funeral/embambing that they don't pay for. But you can have the insurance proceeds signed over to the funeral home otherwise Medicade will come after it. As a POA you cannot change the beneficiery situation. It sounds good as it is. .
However, a designated burial policy is left alone, and policies without cash or face value pass to the beneficiaries as well. A good estate planner can help you, as could an eldercare attorney - just make sure they are not pushing their own products and do understand Medicaid in yoru state. And if you are in a spend down, using some funds for the prepaid funeral expenses can be part of it.
I am single, in poor health, and have no financial assets other than 2 life insurance policies, one a single premium life (paid up years ago) and the other Oridnary W-life 85. If I need to go to a nursing home will they take these policies for my care, leaving my family without money to pay for my burial?
The beneficiary typically gets to keep the proceeds of the policy, the only issue would be the cash, "face" or "surrender" value if any, which is typically much less than the payout. If mom already has Medicaid, they apparently did not find it or did not count it as a gifting of assets (or it did not have face or cash value.) Term insurance does not have any. You can usually figure that out by reading the policy details. The paperwork or online account will have typically have a cash value listed somewhere. You can use Mom's info to set up online access since you have POA. Good reference at fool.com/insurancecenter/life/life05.htm on this.
Laws are federal for cash value of life insurance: cash it in and spend it down. Any state. OR pay mom for the cash value of it. the money MUST flow to the patient and the patient spends it down.
If you have been owner for only 4 years, it will still snag a problem with Medicaid, who looks back FIVE years. You need to be clear of all gifts and transfers for FIVE years.
The owner has all of the rights in a life insurance policy. BUT if you are concerned about Medicaid eligibility, my follow up question would be-- at what point did you become the owner? If not from the beginning, the transfer of ownership may affect any Medicaid issues.
If the policy was surrendered as an advance payment, the NH would refund the unused portion. So if it was a $50K policy, but the nursing home bill is more than that, the family will not see any money. On the other hand, if the NH bill was only $10K, the balance of $40K will go to the named beneficiary.
If dad is over 65 I assume he has Medicare. Medicare covers Hospice. With a terminal diagnosis with 6 months to live he will qualify for Medicare. Have him evaluated by a Hospice for movement to a hospice unit.
i agree with Jeanne regarding bringing in Hospice care. In regards to the life insurance policy, it probably all depends on if your father has any outstanding debts. Debts are paid before inheritance is given to the beneficiaries.
Great question. If your father is on Medicaid, the state can most likely take the life insurance policy pay-out during the asset recovery phase (after the parent passes away). Medicaid can take all of the proceeds except for what may be used for funeral, burial, and estate settlement expenses. The state of Kansas said they were even entitled to receive my father's VA life insurance benefit. (Shocking!) The VA says the state can't touch it. Still don't have an answer, yet we continue to pay the premiums. Because my father is on Medicaid and Hospice, and he had the $10k policy upon admission, again, we the unpaid caregivers are forced to hire an attorney to sort these details out. Don't know how being under Hospice care can over-rule whatever your state;s Medicaid mandates. Can an attorney please chime in here? Thanks again for posting this very important question. Good luck to all of you and your families.
RRcc - None of this is easy. Hospice is a wonderful resource and if you can make it work within your family and everybody understands what "comfort" care is.
Insurance is sticky for being an asset. There are issues in whole vs term and in ownership. Most elderly are on the policy as being the owner of the policy so it is an asset. BUT you DO NOT have to own your policy, others can own the policy and this is how you get around it being an asset, you just need a good financial advisor & attorney to get this worked out. I have "key-man" insurance policy and the business technically is the owner of my life insurance policy and pays the premiums. Did this years ago before I even had to think about dealing with Medicaid issues for my mom. Now whole life policies usually build up a cash value and have to be cashed in before Medicaid can happen. Term policies don't and are POD to whomever is the beneficiary. I have heard that some states are requiring the Medicaid recepient to have the Medicaid program be a beneficiary but I bet this will face legal challenges.
Regarding hospice, if you haven't chosen the hospice group, one thing to consider is if they have a end-of-life hospice facility. My MIL was in the panhandle and her hospice was at a freestanding hospice facility adjacent to the hospital. She went there after being in a NH and was there about 2 weeks before she died. For my mom, we have preselected VITAS for her hospice when her MD decides it is time. Vitas has a free-standing facility where she lives in central TX, and again, if need be she can be transferred there for the final, final, final days. If your dad might be one who needs serious class 3 or 4 pain medications (like opiates), an in unit hospice facility will work better as the go-to-your home hospice staff usually don't carry the big time pain drugs on them. Just something to think and ask about.
Thank You I believe we will be bringing him home next week and calling in Hospice. Thanks for all your answers and concerns. Please pray for us and the strength to face what is ahead. Thanks!!
To clarify, I should have written "death value". Texas Medicaid laws don't allow you to have a life insurance policy with a death value of more than $1,500. to be eligible for Medicaid. A policy with a death value of $1,500 or less is an exempt asset.
The beneficiary listed on the life insurance policy receives the money.
Texas requires that any life insurance policy can't have a face value of more than $1500. before a person is eligible for Medicaid. Had my FIL lived longer and needed to apply for Medicaid we would have had to cash in his whole life policy for its cash-in value and apply that money towards his care.
My understanding was that third parties could not make a claim on a life insurance policy directly. If you are in a penalty situation where you could be liable for some bills due to gifting or for other reasons are in debt, you might end up using some of the payout but that would not be something the nursing home could directly claim. If in doubt, an eldercare attorney is often the best resource and option. I found a good one in Arkansas by picking the one with the website that explained the Medicaid issues that we were going to be dealing with the best. The consultation was about $300.00 and very much worth it.
I suggest you have him evaluated for hospice and enroll him as soon as he is eligible. It is a very comforting, helpful program for both the patient and the family. My husband was on hospice about five weeks before he died, and I am certainly grateful for their help. They will provide help right in the nursing home where your father is.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If you have a home in your name, State may come after that as well, to pay them back for your care.
Who is the beneficiary?
Insurance is sticky for being an asset. There are issues in whole vs term and in ownership. Most elderly are on the policy as being the owner of the policy so it is an asset. BUT you DO NOT have to own your policy, others can own the policy and this is how you get around it being an asset, you just need a good financial advisor & attorney to get this worked out. I have "key-man" insurance policy and the business technically is the owner of my life insurance policy and pays the premiums. Did this years ago before I even had to think about dealing with Medicaid issues for my mom. Now whole life policies usually build up a cash value and have to be cashed in before Medicaid can happen. Term policies don't and are POD to whomever is the beneficiary. I have heard that some states are requiring the Medicaid recepient to have the Medicaid program be a beneficiary but I bet this will face legal challenges.
Regarding hospice, if you haven't chosen the hospice group, one thing to consider is if they have a end-of-life hospice facility. My MIL was in the panhandle and her hospice was at a freestanding hospice facility adjacent to the hospital. She went there after being in a NH and was there about 2 weeks before she died. For my mom, we have preselected VITAS for her hospice when her MD decides it is time. Vitas has a free-standing facility where she lives in central TX, and again, if need be she can be transferred there for the final, final, final days. If your dad might be one who needs serious class 3 or 4 pain medications (like opiates), an in unit hospice facility will work better as the go-to-your home hospice staff usually don't carry the big time pain drugs on them. Just something to think and ask about.
Texas requires that any life insurance policy can't have a face value of more than $1500. before a person is eligible for Medicaid. Had my FIL lived longer and needed to apply for Medicaid we would have had to cash in his whole life policy for its cash-in value and apply that money towards his care.
This is not related to his insurance, but if he is not on Hospice care I highly recommend it.