I looked up what a narcissist is, but still not sure. Can anyone give me some examples of narcissistic behavior? If a person has Alzheimer's his or her personality changes drastically. Can a person exhibit narcissistic traits after they get Alzheimer's or were they always a narcissist but the disease only intensified that trait?
Narcissism means IT’S ALL ABOUT ME! I LIKE TO PLAY MIND GAMES. I love to manipulate everyone around me. I’m smarter than everyone else. Everyone and everything exists for me!
Basically...
A narcissistic parent can be defined as someone who lives through, is possessive of, and/or engages in marginalizing competition with the offspring. Typically, the narcissistic parent perceives the independence of a child (including adult children) as a threat, and coerces the offspring to exist in the parent’s shadow, with unreasonable expectations. In a narcissistic parenting relationship, the child is rarely loved just for being herself or himself.
There are 10 signs on their site. (Too many to copy.)
Mostly, the narcissist is focused on themselves, often wanting huge amounts of attention and becoming resentful if they don't get it. Usually they want the best of everything because they believe they're worth it. They usually are oblivious to anyone who doesn't measure up to their standards. Self absorbed pretty much explains it.
It is astounding how many of us on this board have a narcissistic parent! Each of us has suffered through their parenting in slightly different ways.
I can't imagine developing narcissism AFTER dementia, although it may seem that way.
You'd know if your pared was self absorbed in your childhood.
You just may not know what it was called.
Very interesting article.
See if it fits.
pro.psychcentral.com/exhausted-woman/2017/01/the-aging-narcissist-adding-dementia-to-the-mix/
Very interesting article.
There was another article from
Psychcentral
"People who are narcissists are almost proud of the fact. You can ask them directly because they don’t see narcissism as a negative quality — they believe they are superior to other people and are fine with saying that publicly.”
“For example, narcissistic people have low empathy, and empathy is one key motivator of philanthropic behavior such as donating money or time to organizations.”
“Overall, narcissism is problematic for both individuals and society. Those who think they are already great don’t try to improve themselves,” Bushman said.
competitive (they must win, you must lose), grandiosity, impulsivity due to extreme
self focus, can be aggressive when they feel threatened (which is often), manipulative, deceitful, disloyal to the extreme, enjoys watching others fail and/or suffer, steals other's ideas, identity, property, friends, etc, unrealistic long range plans due to selfishness and fantasy based thinking. Tend to use their children as either servants or extensions of themselves (ie want their children to be super successful to take credit and/or bask in shared glory) . Tend to play favorites and pit one child, relative, coworker, etc off of others or scapegoat. Usually at center of workplace mobbing or family mobbing.
In other words, they don't parent their children, they parentify them. When they
age its just more of the same. Exhausting and heartbreaking. Those who hope that
breaking their backs care taking their demanding parent will finally bring them the
recognition and love they so clearly deserve are in for great disappointment.
SueC underlines the key points for me. If I had to try to sum it up, the "tell" is when the person not only believes that he or she is more important than anyone or anything else at all, but also sincerely believes that everyone else - unless there is something seriously wrong with them, such as that they are incorrigibly evil or stupid - agrees.
It is not the same as being self-centred, which when you think about it is only to be expected of someone whose horizons and energy levels are sadly diminished with age.
• My mother took credit for my accomplishments. When an elderly neighbor told my mother that I was a "nice, young lady", my mother's response was, "Yes, I raised her right".
• Lack of empathy. I attended several funerals with my mother and while everyone else is sniffling and drying their eyes, I looked at my mother and saw nothing - no emotion.
• "Look at me" -- As she got older, my mother liked to ask people to guess her age. Several times a waiter or store clerk would say, "No, I'm not going to guess" and my mother would almost insist. One time we were at a restaurant and she pretty much badgered the waiter into guessing. And we were there to celebrate MY birthday.
• I can remember in grade school being dropped off at a friends house for a "sleep-over". I didn't hear, "Have a good time" or "Don't stay up too late". What I did hear was, "Behave yourself". Because if I misbehaved that would be a direct reflection back to her.
To sum it up, for a narcissist it's "all about me".
Whether or not it gets worse with age is hard to say. But when you have to deal with the dementia on top of it, it's a real b*tch.
My mother passed several months ago and as cold as it sounds, there wasn't a lot of grieving from me. She simply wasn't the mother I needed or deserved.
We're getting ready to auction off his house to get it sold fast, and even though the man can't drive, can't walk, he's insisting he be put on a 4wheeler so he can parade around at the auction of his house. He's always had to have the biggest boat, truck, everything, mom had to have the biggest wedding ring so he could brag about it. Besides the stuff, he pitted family against each other for entertainment, he still tries, there's no one left but me and my kids now, and we all know well the games he plays. My kids visit with him briefly, they're good people doing the right thing, and when he starts what we call "the behavior" they leave. They know it well. When he's in nursing care briefly at times, usually for PT, if he doesn't get the attention he wants, he starts offering to write nurses 100,000 dollar checks. He by all means does not have that kind of money, but it shows how he is, nurses usually get angry and will avoid him if they can, or get someone else to work with him. I have conversations with dad, as soon as they turn that direction, I'll say well I've got to get to work on this or that like his laundry, his dinner, etc... which makes him happy, I also wear headphones listening to music, and he doesn't mind that. I can see the start of every game he tries a mile away now, so it's easier for me to avoid the issues. But yeah, sorry for the little rant, my thoughts are with all who have no choice but to deal with this behavior.
There are two types of narcissist. The type that is pompous and grandiose is the Overt type.
The type that APPEARS insecure an shy is the covert type or the introverted type.
The Covert type is actually more malignant than the overt type.
The coverts are far more sneaky and they are always playing the victim card.
There seeming sensitivity and shyness and pity parties are all tools they use to manipulate and fool and control people
She is extremely manipulative, plays the victim role, gaslights me (turns everything around so it's my fault). She plays the woman who cries wolf...she tells me she doesn't feel well, I suggest we call the dr...and then she backs down. She can be very mean.
I am currently working with her primary care physician and I am going to make an appt with a gerontologist. She needs an psychological evaluation...as she has been on xanax for over 20+ years and I believe there is a physical addiction...Her anxiety level is off the charts even with the xanax.
I am an only child. I am it in terms of her care. I've had to learn to set very strong boundaries, take her in small doses, and communicate via computer rather than having shouting matches in person or on the phone.
My best advice is to make sure you engage in self care for yourself...If you are not well, you won't have the strength for your narcissistic parent. There are many websites out there with very good information on how to deal with this. If you are a daughter, consider looking up Peg Streep.
I recently read an article by an FBI agent and studies have shown that narsistic, psychopath and sociopath individuals share a great number of personalities. That creeped me out but it is true.
When you never do anything right, can't dance fast enough to please them and can hold a PHD and not know your bung hole from a hole in the ground, you are dealing with a narsisist, they are the smartest, cleverest, most awesome person on the planet and always turn the focus on themselves.
It is so sad that they are what they are, sadder yet is that their offspring believe the rotten sobs when they run them in the ground.
HUGS to all of you who have said "No more", no matter what anyone says we are also worthy of love and respect and if that means we have to walk completely away to avoid being devoured, so be it.
I think back to the defining moment as I sat with my mom at the end of her life and my father was on the phone with me demanding I find him a podiatrist as he needed his toenails trimmed. I was blessed by the hospital social worker who at that point put in a no contact order so I could focus on my mom and not my father's demands and threats.
No human comes equipped with the tools needed to remain balanced and healthy when they find themselves the primary caregiver for a narcissistic parent. So again. Thank you for this discussion.
You're right, but I personally do not see the narcissistic element.
I see this so called narcissism as how the parent was as a person and a parent. What was their vocation during their work career? Was the person a stay at home Mother, disciplinarian, household finance keeper?
Our Mother raised her 2 brothers. She became the Mom and housekeeper before she was 7. The home environment was not good, but she took control and did what had to be done.
She married our Father and her job went from her home life to married life until she went back to work after my brother started 1st grade; we became latchkey before it was given the title. We took Mom's place until she got home from work BUT we had what she never did....CHILDHOOD and our TEEN YEARS.
Mom became the Operations Officer for the Commercial Credit Dept for a bank which is now a bank with many many branches in this Country.
Her job was background research for companies as well as the individuals with these companies wanting to either get or extend their commercial lines of credit. She worked side x side with very important bank Officers all the way up to the Bank President, CEO.
She ran the household, the finances, Girl Scout Leader, Home Room Mother, Home Block safety Mother and always the disciplinarian, unless it was so bad she'd leave it to Dad.
Does she show signs of "narcissism"? That depends are the true meaning of the word; or are you just seeing what they are/have lost as well as no longer being.
I know my Mother does not sit in front of a mirror to coif her hair, make up on, the perfect dress/shoes/purse to match, pearls/earrings so as to impress people, belong to a Country Club and be seen with the "right/influential" people. She never did this unless she was going to work and yes, women had a MANdated dress code.
Who I see now is Mom not knowing who she is any longer, family, the world around her. She wants to be the person she was but can't unless something triggers her mind of her past.
I see frustration, depression and loss.
I remember Mom as who she was, but most importantly who she still is...my Mom.
They often seem to be a great person so the family who really knows them are never given any outside support - many will say to them 'oh he's such a great guy' so how can they deal with how poor a dad he is - this tends to make other family members think they are the problem
I believe as they start dementia that this was an underlying trait that now comes to the forefront so they suddenly appear narissistic but actually had disguised it for quite a while because they can't keep up appearances anymore it now shows up - this means looking back at their actions as a whole over years
Reading the lists, it was my father in a nutshell. I informed him as a matter of courtesy when she died (I cared for her at home until her death), and he faxed me by return a picture of a screaming woman entitled ‘Revenge Pursued Beyond The Grave’. He must have had it ready. Thank God she saved us from him.
W61ha13D asks are there really that many narcissists? Earlier in life, there are too few people who call them on it, and too many people who accept the image and prop it up. Now there are more narcissists who live long enough to lose sympathy, and more victims being forced into dealing with them. Thank God for this site if it can help.
Just yesterday, I was so angry after first having my mouth drop open when she told my daughter that the reason she did not want to go with me/us to a nearby show, was because there were no tickets left for us to sit together. And she did not want to go because she did not want to sit by herself. I said very clearly outloud, "Mom, that is not why you didn't want to go, because when I bought my ticket there were seats together and I asked you, and you said "no", to which I replied "ok". And "why are you telling [daughter's name] that you're not going because you don't want to sit by yourself?" "why don't you tell the truth, and just say you don't want to go?"
Ahhhh, but because daughter is now interested in going, Mom has to insert herself into the situation. Very typical narcissistic thing that she does often... gaslighting me..... and of course, then later mutters under her breath with words of playing the victim, and doesn't understand why I'm like that to her [ asking her to tell the truth?? Really ????]
In a way, we are all narcissists because we all see the world through our own eyes and our own experiences. In a way, we are the center of our world, and thus our world revolves around ourselves. We can focus on other people though because we know that everyone else is, in a way, the same as us. Everyone sees the world through his or her eyes and his or her experiences. We connect. We share. We empathize.
The elderly aren't young anymore. Their bodies have aged and are continuing to age. They can't do the things they used to be able to do. They don't see things clearly, both literally and figuratively. They might be having a harder time connecting and sharing with others around them. Also, it might be harder for them to empathize with those who are younger, healthier, and have more years of life left.
From Huffpost.com;
"Many have suggested that NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) emerges from an environment in which VULNERABLILITY comes to feel dangerous, representing, at worst, either a grave defect, or at best, a stubborn barrier to becoming a worthwhile human being.......hence the correlation between NPD and insecure attachment styles, (in which fears of depending on anyone at all) engender constant attempts to control the relationship or AVOID INTIMACY altogether. If you devote yourself to directing interactions or holding people at arms length, it’s a lot harder to become vulnerable..
People with NPD have learned to ignore, suppress, deny, project and disavow their vulnerabilities (or at least try) in their attempts to shape and reshape “who they are” in their interactions.
Changing (their personality)— allowing the vulnerability back in — means opening up to the very feelings they’ve learned to avoid at all costs. It’s not that people with NPD can’t change, it’s that it often threatens their sense of personhood to try. And their failed relationships often confirm, in their minds, that narcissism is the safest way to live.
Put another way, narcissists can’t be narcissistic in a vacuum. They need the right audience in order to feel like a star...so they often cultivate relationships with people who stick around for the show, instead of the person. Over time, as their perfect façade starts to slip, their constant fear that people will find them lacking becomes a horrifying reality. The very people who stuck around for the show lose interest when it ends — which merely convinces the narcissist they need to hide their flaws and put on a better show."
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This is amazing to me! To think that my pompous, entitled, "better than everyone else" mother was narcissistic because she was VULNERABLE?
Wow, I can't wrap my head around that theory. What a strange manifestation of vulnerablility. 🤔
Who knew?
So that's why mom was married 4 times. That's why she pushed me away at 5 when I went to hug her! THAT'S why she told me never to depend on a man! This is a "lightbulb moment" for me!
What do ya'll think of this?
"Their terror of being unworthy is frequently....managed with bravado and blame, but it’s profound and palpable. Sadly, their anger at having their mistakes and missteps exposed ultimately alienates their loved ones, and the demise of yet another relationship prompts them to redouble their efforts to avoid vulnerability — in short, it pushes them towards more narcissism.
The sad irony of the narcissistic condition is that, in an effort to protect themselves, narcissists inevitably invite the very rejection and abandonment they fear in the first place.
The key then, to interacting with someone you suspect is narcissistic, is to break the vicious circle — to gently thwart their frantic efforts to control, distance, defend or blame in the relationship by sending the message that you’re more than willing to connect with them, but not on these terms — to invite them into a version of intimacy where they can be loved and admired, warts and all — if they only allow the experience to happen."
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I'm not sure, with SO much "water under the bridge" at this stage, that we would "want" to try to repair or get reacquainted with a relationship.
Thanks to Dr. Craig Malkin for the article.
I agree with MargaretMcken, its hooey.
anyway, this has been a very validating conversation so thank you everyone.