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Background: mom, in the past, has been very nasty. My nickname for her was 'b***hmouth'. Long story which I don't really want to get into.
She has a pretty good vocabulary and she has a way of 'turning a phrase' which definitely has meaning built into it. She has made plenty of enemies in the past doing just that. (and also typical, seems absolutely clueless when most everyone else she worked with hated her).
Her doctor visited yesterday (yes, this one makes house calls for elderly). When I got home, a few instructions and recommendations had been left.
Now, most of us would say 'the doctor told me such and such and such, and to do this, that and the other.' Not mom. She says 'the doctor scolded me...'. Nothing wrong with my hearing, two syllable word.
For whatever reason, I decided to ask her why she phrased it like that?
"like what?"
'you said 'scolded'. that invokes certain images. why did you use that word?"
"I did not use that word.'
'yes you did'.
(now she is starting to get bent out of shape) "You have done this to me in the past. I said told, my teeth cause problems, you didn't hear it right."
"scolded is two syllables, told is one. I know the difference."
(now really upset) " I just want you to believe me.. I did not say scolded"
Me (sarcastically) 'riiiiight'.
these same two sentences are repeated several times, I always respond "right".
I don't know if she is pacified but I know what I d**n well heard. When this happens, she does (what she has already done and is actually typical of her personality) attempt to twist it back round on me.

Mom has never owned anything she has ever done. She was ok as a mother, did the best she could, but she was subject to occasional bouts of paranoia, seemed to be extremely insecure at times, and topped it off with always drinking. Towards the end (just before I simply up and left home) she was getting stewed nightly.

Maybe there is no point to calling her out. I have found though, when I have called her out, she does know she is guilty, she does this type of waffling, dodging, etc all to avoid any responsibility for her own behavior.

and just in case you think she is not that bad: she told me once I should have been an abortion. I was going to pay for what I took and what dad took. This was just one bout of name calling. I have done my best to forget as much as I can. Some things you just don't forget.

I am only there because I am deeply flawed, have my own psychological 'peccadillos, and problems. If i was REALLY successful, mom would probably be alone, but I probably would try and help sending help in. Either way, I inherit the mess.

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My guess is narcissists run the gamut. Looking at the other website, and reading the posts in here, it makes me wonder, just how much do they change, if at all.
Mom, so far, is not as bad as she was back in 1977 when I left. Perhaps that did teach her a lesson: I can and will walk out and she hasn't forgotten that. (side note: she's never brought this up).
Since I am living there, I am glad things tend to run smoothly.
But I sure understand people who have been subjected to far worse narcissists than my mom where they doubt their own sanity, their head spins, you just don't know what is up, down, right or whatever.
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Twocents my mother has been a mean, manipulative, spiteful narcissist her whole life who would do one over on anyone without a shred of guilt or empathy, just gleeful about her "conquests", openly nice to outsiders so long as she got her own way but treated the family like cr*p. Now in a NH, she has no friends and, an only child, it's been down to me to listen to her complaining abusive daily phone calls and run down there 3x a week to run her errands and listen to more ranting and raving. She totally refused to attend any activities or attempt to make a friend or two, just waited for me to arrive to serve and unload on. There's no changing or reasoning with a narcissist and once you add dementia to the mix it is indeed like adding gasoline to a fire.

To save my health and sanity I've literally gone into hiding. My mother does not have my address and I've changed my phone number. For the time being I'll go by occasionally taking all the extras she likes but I'll leave them at the office to take to her "because I have a cold". In a few weeks that cold can turn into the flu. After another few weeks I could develop something else catching. I'll think of something {evil grinz}.
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empathy for others? that would actually be difficult. she has virtually no friends, at least any that come over to see her.
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Hi two cents,
My mother has done the same thing her whole life. It took me a long time before I figured it out, but my mother is narsistic. When discussing this with her siblings they all completely agree. You should read up on narsistic mothers, you will be surprised what you will learn. My mother has Alzheimer's, picks disease and is also narsistic, which is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Does your mom have any empathy for others?
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Sounds like mom has been a meanie for a long time and you blew up AT a sentence, no necessarily ABOUT the sentence. I venture to guess you had some suppressed anger, are stressed and grabed on to something that annoyed you. Silly. Human. Forget about it adn move on. It is too late in the game to work out the things what bothered you about mom, she will not change at this time. The only thing you can control is how you deal with it.
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Two cents, you are worth more than two cents! And I think the key is when mom said you should have been an abortion, it was too ugly, too demeaning, and made you feel too bad inside to ever forget about. SHE probably forgot about it because it came out of her mouth without a second thought. You are worth much more than that, the world is a better place because you are here, your MOM is in a FAR better place because you are here, and your mom was just plain and simple completely wrong and off base to have ever said let alone thought such a thing.

That said you are not going to fix her and you are not going to benefit by baiting her and having her be even more obviously wrong; in her own eyes she cannot let herself be wrong, she is one of those folks whom the 12 step books describe as "constituationally incapable of being honest with themselves" for whom things will just not work unless that very fundamental fact about them can change. I like the explanation at www.soberrecovery.com/forums/newcomers-recovery/262052-so-what-does-person-who-constitutionally-incapable-being-honest-himself-do.html. You might want to consider going to Alanon for yourself to help you love yourself and your mom as best you can and let go of what you can't love - or change.
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Thank you looloo. I live downstairs, she lives upstairs. She is at the point she cannot live by herself.
The majority of the time, she is ok, so for that I'm grateful. Episodes generally don't last too long, as I tune her out. (An ability she taught me inadvertently a loooong time ago.)
I think I need to face why I did it which was probably to bait her. Which is why I wasn't angry. Anyway, I think I have the upper hand for the most part unless mom tries to up the ante (which she may have done today..). oh well.
again, thank you.
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twocents, you don't have to convince me further that your mother's a bully, at the very least -- and quite possibly a narcissist as well. She sounds a lot like my mother, yeesh! When I read the criteria for narcissistic personality, malignant narcissism, and cerebral narcissists, I checked practically every trait off as being one that my mother has. It's helped me see much more clearly over the past 6 months, and I've developed a much healthier 'detachment' from her behavior and moods. I get what you mean when you say you 'don't trust' her. Even though I have a much better grasp on who she is and why she behaves as she does, I too, do not trust her, because I can't see her mood coming until it's right in front of me. By that time, I've probably blinked wrong, or done who knows what? And then there's a week or two of dealing with her reaction until it's replaced with whatever comes next. She needs more oversight and assistance now, and I've taken on tasks like bill paying, taxes, banking, monitoring her medical appts via her health insurance website, etc. But I've started communicating with her less and less. Every day I don't have to interact with her is wonderful, and those moments when I know I need to call and check in, I dread until I can hang up the phone again and get on with my life.
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It seems to me that you are just gleeful that mom needs you more than you need her and that allows you to upset her over crap nothing. Shame on you. I wouldn't trust you with a loved one of mine. I feel sorry that your mom seems to have no choice but to rely and trust you. Try to deserve it.
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Most of the time I ignore this bs she emits. And we don't squabble all the time, I repeat, this was not really a squabble as mom was the only one to get upset. She used the phrase 'the doctor scolded me' rather than what many would say 'the doctor told me'. Normally I would have let it drop, ignore it, but simply asked her why she used that particular phrasing. It implies she is being picked on (which is not true), and this is the crux of the matter. Rather than respond with 'well, I felt picked on' she becomes defensive which is what people like this do whenever their little self sense is rattled the slightest bit.
Mom was always a past master of verbal abuse, belittling, and her choice of words was deliberate and calculated to be as nasty and destructive as possible. To an outside person it would actually appear almost normal, but having had experience, I knew just where that cow was coming from
Right now she needs me more than I need her so for the moment, I can actually tell her to 'shut up' on more outrageous moments.
I know what she said, and she can dodge and weave as much as she wants, and resort to more accusatory behavior (met with sarcasm usually). I don't believe her and I don't trust her.
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Could I ask about what was said that led us to think that the mother was narcissistic? Chances are that she just thought she said one word, but another came out. My mother does that sometimes, so I figure that it's fairly common. I just ignore it. Around here I have to choose my battles or we'd be squabbling all the time.
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twocents~we do pick up some of the behaviors because that is the environment we were raised in, but, the good news is, you change it within yourself, grow to more healthy thinking and living. Yes, a parent with a personality disorder does not see you as an individual, you are an extension of them and their personal property. It is all about them, always will be. Keep reading, get yourself some books..."The Stop Walking on Eggshells Workbook Practical Strategies for Living With Someone Who Has Borderline Personality Disorder". Good luck to you, and keep us posted on your progress.
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Looked at daughters of narcissists. Yep, mom in a nutshell. I guess these folks come in all phases of the disorder. And yeah, I've picked up some of the aspects as well. At least I did not inflict this on a child as she chose to.
Children, the latest fashion accessory and mental dumping ground. Makes you wonder just why they have them. What's the point to it then? Creating their own adoring public?
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I second Sharynmarie's answer.
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Yes I've read the posts, yes I'm going to visit that site.
I wasn't angry during that exchange, neither did I get upset. Mom was the only one to get upset (simply a defense mechanism on her part.)
As for her doing what the doc requested? About all she does is take the meds. Doc requested she eat at least two eggs a day. After a big 'show' about boiling some eggs up, she has not touched one at all this week.She simply cannot eat very much anymore No problem, I like munching on them in the evening with a little mayo.
Doctor does not like her alcohol consumption. hasn't slowed mom down a bit although, and she is a retired nurse, she knows damn well about the drug/alcohol interactions. She doesn't get smashed (at least not anymore), but I really do not have a clue as to just how sensitive these interactions might be. She wants to risk it? Her decision. She knows what she is doing and I refuse to be her policeman in this case. (depriving her of her alcohol would REALLY make her upset.) And she's 91 years old. What the heck difference is it going to make anyway. She does what she wants to do and if the doctors orders happen to go along with it, fine. She can hardly see, hardly hear, is now just about confined to the house, afraid her bladder will betray her, so I do try and give her leeway.
In some ways, I guess I would have a lot of questions along these lines. Take the alcohol for example. Just how far do we police them for this? I rarely see or hear from the doctor: I know she does not like moms alcohol consumption. If I did what the doctor wanted, mom would be throwing fits all the time. Again, mom is 91. So, what are your feelings on this? This does not seem to tie in with how I started out, but it does: moms capacity for getting upset when she does not get her way, when she is verbally nasty (use of words and phraseology) and not doing what the doctor would like?
If the doctor came out and told me I had to remove moms alcohol, that would really put me in a pickle.. mom would act like a spoiled brat and turn nasty.. all to what end? She's 91 years old, let her enjoy her alcohol. Her life is very confined at the moment.
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Twocents~If you are serious about your situation and wanting a solution...it takes lots of work on your part...not physical work...emotional work to being healthy. It is painful in the the beginning and may seem like the situation is worse but here is my experience and suggestions:
1)your mother sounds like a classic case of a person with serious mental illness called a personality disorder. There are many types and must people have more than one which involves being narcissistic. A narcissists is a person who has grandiose beliefs about themselves...they are perfect, everyone else has a problem but them. They demand admiration based on their beauty and perfectionism. Usually they also have another personality disorder that involves paranoia, delusions, antisocial behavior, they are sweet as pie to people outside the family but treat family members like crap. Accusations that come from nowhere. If you are serious about learning more and healing...learning to detach with love and setting boundaries...google daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.

We all want to give and provide the best that we can for our aging parents, however, there does come a time when we have to have boundaries and set priorities within our own relationships such as between you and a spouse, you and your children, you and your employer. Let us know more so we can provide the suggestions and support. Please respond back so we know you have read the posts.
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Twocents, do you have a problem you want help with, or an issue you'd like to discuss? Sounds like you found a way to get your mother diverted from telling what the doctor said and to engage in an argument with you. Most of us do just the opposite ... try to get our mothers/fathers/spouses diverted from being argumentative and into an information-sharing mode. But if this is satisfying for you, go for it.
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Feel free to pick a fight over nothing with her. I don't know what either of you would benefit from it but you can do what you want. If you have a question or want advice, post again.
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p.s.: she seems to have calmed down a bit in latter years, but her old personality is still there in some ways.
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