As some of you may have noticed, my elderly Dad does a good job of annoying me a lot of the time! I shouldn't let it get to me and should be more firm with him. But I was thinking about what does wind me up and wonder whether you all think my approach is right with what I expect etc from elderly person.
1. If you can do it yourself or help yourself then do it. Don't expect others to help because you can't be bothered.
2. Help others to help you and be a little bit flexible. Don't be stubborn and want things all your own way especially when others are sorting things out to make everyones life easier.
3. Appreciate that family have other responsibilities and not just you. You don't have a right to unlimited time.
Sadly, my Dad fails badly on all three of these.....
If he can get someone to do something for him he just won't bother himself (in fact, I think he likes having someone run around for him). He is totally inflexible and won't listen to anyone its his way or not at all - in the past hes expected me to travel 2 hours to pick him up to take him to appointment rather than pay for a £10 taxi. Worse of all - he does not care about what I've got on, issues/responsibilities I have for my own family - and has said he expects to be put first.
Am I being unfair on him?
/rant over
I have had visits with my father that went well and I think "If there were more like this I would visit more often". Then he goes back into crisis mode and I resist visiting.
Oh yes control is his thing. I'm 50 years of age and he still thinks he can criticise things ranging from my choice of holiday destination, what I spend money on, how many kids I have etc. Its crazy.
Yeh same with me. Most visits are actually ok. Its the in between stuff where it turns into a bit of a game where he thinks of urgent reasons why I have to visit, and I have to defend what I'm doings these times.
Well, yeah, it's unfair. And with this latest event, I'd actually go so far as to say you set him up to fail.
Your father understands what about Asperger's Syndrome? He comes from a generation that by and large doesn't even "believe in" psychiatry.
And you hoped that he would suddenly, generously agree that your son needs you and he, your father, can best help the family by accessing services that he's consistently rejected to date?
C'mon. You are asking for things that are emotionally and intellectually way beyond him. Don't be daft.
My father could never understand that there were other issues besides his wants. A few years back I was out of work for 9 months. I am sure my father thought this was great as I would have more time for him. He could not see that I had no money coming in therefore could not afford to put gas in my car to drive him around. One time I drove down there because he got a last minute appointment to do the pre screening for a colonoscopy. While there I took him to the bank and shopping and lunch. The main point of the trip was the appointment though. Two days later he cancels the colonoscopy. I was fuming as he basically wasted my time and money. And I told him so. It went right over his head and he asked if I was coming down tomorrow. I totally flipped and finally told him I could not afford the gas to make the drive again. He got all offended and said if he HAD to he would give me gas money. I never asked him for that, I was just telling him one of the reasons why it was hard for me to be there. Of course he never actually gave me gas money. But he would give my kids gas money if they came down to assist him.
Before anyone starts yelling dementia, this was years before he had any cognitive issues. He is just self centered.
BUT I find it works the other way now. He tries to blackmail me to come when he wants, so I resist and don't go at all. If he just let me visit when I could then I'd visit more than I do.
Now what you mean though. I get the impressions sometimes that any spare moment should be allocated to him - Im not allowed any downtime at all.
Sure I shared the story on here. Visited someone who had cancer, who I'd known years ago - he lived a few miles from Dad. It was a bit of a rush, I had to go after work, sort my kids out after. When Dad found out (via my stupid brother) he sulked for weeks that I hadn't dropped in to see him as well. (I'd been there literally the day before).
Its like theres an inclusion zone within 10 miles of his house. If I enter it I must find time to visit him. (Even though he forgets my dear brother lives permanenty within a 2 mile zone!).
Now Im careful what I put on facebook.
Haven't told Dad the whole story but thought it might be worth telling him - he might realise there are more important things I've got to deal with.
So he says "OK then. Don't worry about coming up this weekend then if you've got stuff to sort out". "But you'll HAVE to come next weekend though".
In other words, sort the problem out and don't let it get in the way of what want.....Jeez
this is exactly where you keep missing the point.
The job, whatever the job, is Not Real. The wish is for your time and attention. Obviously your presence is of the essence. Therefore there cannot be any time when doing something for himself is going to solve the problem. Therefore, stop wishing for it. It will save you pain.
You decide for yourself what time and attention you give your father. You trust yourself to do that fairly, and sufficient to supply his needs. Not his whims, note, his needs - but his emotional and social needs to a fair extent, not just practical ones.
Emotional blackmail is only a problem if you succumb to it. As long as you don't, it's just an unattractive personality trait - one of the warts you have take with the all.
In fact, it would be helpful to do that throughout.
You don't need excuses not to take orders from your brother. If you were doing nothing but paint your toenails and watch the rugby you would still not owe your brother back-up, and your father would still be fine. Nobody NEEDS to go to the betting shop or stock up on groceries two days running.
The trouble is that when you start thinking: I have to do a - z and you have to do nothing and it isn't fair... then you end up feeling put upon, unappreciated and hard done by AND, what's more and worse, you ruminate on your father's and your brother's failings. And there's just no need!
A simple no, or even a simple sod off, would do the trick. You don't have to show your reasoning.
Thing is I do visit him, I'm happy to, always have, always will. As I've said before I will anything for him to help him out where I can.
Its the emotional blackmail that gets me. There's no need to pretend you need something - I'll visit anyway. I think the worse is when he thinks he has got to come first - I can't do that I've got my own family.
Also, the stubborness and laziness. Doesn't like home delivery shopping, doesnt like to pay for a taxi, can't be bothered to get his scooter out. I wish he'd think sometimes "paul has got to drive 30 mins to get here - it'd be easier for everyone if I did this"
I think he had in mind that I go Saturday as well. I told him no can do so hes not speaking to me now.
Got to admit I'm dying to say I'm glad you've got so much free time because you've got no kids to look after. (Hes a deadbeat Dad. Got 3 kids from two different relationships he doesn't see. Split up with mother each time, they moved out with kid and he just never bothered. Just shrugged his shoulders and moved on to next partner).
It seems he goes to see Dad on a Saturday am to do shopping for him and go to the betting shop. Then Dad gets me to do more shopping for him on a Sunday. Not sure why the need for two lots of shopping (or why it has to be done weekly or why he can't have it delivered). Well OK I do its so he can blackmail me to visit him.
So get text from brother - "Can't do Dads shopping Saturday or go to betting shop for him. Can you do it instead?" Jeez - he takes the biscuit. My wife is working Saturday, so I've got our 5 year old. I might have to pop into the office for a few hours (if I can get babysitter!). And daughter has got gymnastics at 11am, party at 1pm (which I need to be back from office for). Yet I've got to do drive 20 miles to do his shopping on Saturday now it seems (I was planning to visit Sunday anyway).
My brothers commitments at the weekend. No kids, no work at weekends, partner doesn't work. Lives a mile away from Dad.
Not going to happen!!!!
When I was jut through Uni, I worked as a Court Staff Associate to a judge with unusually blunt common sense and speech, who gave me life-time advice: ‘Never stick your a*se out to be kicked’. Think about it! Yours again, Margaret
Just my two cents to let you know I know what you are going through.
I do try to take him places. I'll invite him somewhere, out for lunch or something. Nah doesn't want to go. I used to take him away every year for the weekend to watch cricket (uk thing!) this year hes saying he doesn't want to go far if it means we're driving back in the dark. You what? My car has got headlights and we're talking 2 hours drive here. Or he'll say "they wont let me in with my wheelchair". (He just wont believe me when I say pretty much the law is they have to provide disabled facilities)
Then he'll say how fed up he is because hes stuck in the house. Or his favourite phrase "Not seen a soul for days" even though I've seen a picture on facebook that my brother has posted of him out somewhere from the day before!
It does seem to be more of a control thing for him at the moment. If I offer to do something, he'll turn it down. But then he likes to think he is able to get me to turn up when he wants. He does honestly treat it like a test for me to see if I jump - I think I'm failing at the moment!
Its not always possible every weekend. Sometimes my wife works all weekend and my daughter has birthday parties etc. or I've got something on.
I do his shopping for him whenever I go. (Which as I've said before is scam to make sure I go).
I also phone pretty much every 2/3 days at most. Every time I have to justify why I haven't visited that day.
There was no hinting; mom just presented this as what she needed from here on in. We found out later that she was presenting with "Mild Cognitive Impairment" likely the result of a stroke that was not dxed at the time.
The thing is, my mom was very considerate about our time; she asked what worked for us in terms of making appointments and arranged them our schedules.
Later on, mom became terribly anxious about all sorts of things (weather, travelling in cabs, burned out light bulbs); we moved her to a facility where she could be around people and not be so isolated and got a geriatric psychiatrist in to see her. Her anxieties got properly medicated and her MCI got diagnosed.
Something has changed with your dad; it sounds as though he's ALWAYS been a taker, but this has gone off the charts. Something is up with him cognitively and you need to have it looked into.
My two cents....
I think the problem is he does not do illness well, hes stubborn and doesn't listen to anyone. So as he gets older it frustrates him not to have 100% perfect health.
He still clings on to the idea that you go to the doctor take a pill and you're all better. Of course when they say sorry no can help he can't cope. And don't get me started on side effects of tablets - he will point blank refuse medical advice when there are side effects. Its no surprise the medical profession have to a certain extent refused to pander to him now.
His health is not bad to be honest. But in his head its way worse.
Hes always been a bit of control freak. Remember the time he told me wife we were silly to have another baby because of our age. Thats Dad for you - he thinks life decisions have to be passed by him first.
I've spoken to his GP many times about things like dementia. Absolutely not they say. They are 100% sure its nothing like that. They have admitted that he is listed as a "delicate" patient though which I think is they're way of saying not to believe everything he says.
That he doesn't seem so to you is a sure sign that the harness is rubbing and you need to adjust it. Wouldn't it be nice to like him again?
But yes thats why I get so frustrated. I don't want our relationship to be like this.
Oh dear, don't you? Well, what are your options?
My boss understands that I have performance targets to meet. The targets do not include how much time I spend with my Dad. Maybe they should - roll on a better society.
Paul, it seems the worst that can happen is that your father, who is never satisfied, remains dissatisfied with your qualities as a son; and that those few remaining family members who haven't yet caught on still have something to learn.
Meanwhile he is, objectively speaking, getting older and frailer and his real needs are increasing. How are you doing with the residential care plan? Been to see any places?
When he drops hints, don't ignore them. Identify and challenge them. You need to let him know which requests are reasonable and which are not. Because you have all the choices here, you also have all of the power in the dynamic. Nothing happens unless you agree to it.
And then when he says why what else are you doing, the answer is "not taking you to the optician."
I wasn't doing anything very interesting on Wednesday. Does that mean I should have popped down there to take him? No. The reason for declining to take him is not that you are not doing something more important, it is that he has better options that are more convenient for him as well as for you. You do not NEED an excuse to say no, there has to be a good reason for you to say yes.
And whatever you do, do not fall into the trap of apologising for him or accepting responsibility for his behaviours. It is not your fault that your uncle chose to bust a gut pushing him around the town.
Dad: So I don't know how I'm going to get to x next week?
Me: Sorry I can't take you?
Dad: Can't you take a few hours off to help me out?
Me: No sorry.
Dad: Don't they owe you some time?
Me: No
Dad: Surely you're boss would understand you need to look after me?
Me: No and I'm too busy.
Dad: Why what are you doing in work?
Me: Dad how would you understand?
Dad: So you definitely can't take me?
Me: No.
Dad: Oh well, I'll have to cancel it then.
Me: OK
Dad: Sorry to put you out (sarcastically).
Paul, just set the family a good example when it comes to boundaries. I honestly don't see what more you can do.
Honestly though, I can understand how everyone gets reeled in by him, hes very very clever and manipulative.
Yes I think I've cracked it to a certain extent. I ignore him now when he hints. Occasionally, he will ask straight up and I will say no. Then he'll ask why what else am I doing and I'll be vague and change the subject. Its working at the moment.
Yes he should have said NO so its partly his fault. BUT, I'm so ashamed of my Dad for the way hes treating people at the moment. All of this to save probably £10 in taxi fares.
When he runs out of willing punters, your father will have a binary choice: take a cab or don't go to the optician. Whichever he chooses it won't be a problem for anyone else.
What is it, putting your finger on it, that is so hard for you about all this? Where's the hurt? [real question, I'm not having a go.]
Thing is always comes back to me. (Eldest son I suppose). People do things for him, then drop it, then he expects me to pick up.
You're annoyed about the mobility scooter, and your conclusion is that your father can't be bothered to use it and selfishly would rather lean on other people for help.
I wouldn't call that unfair so much as potentially really unkind. He used the scooter for a bit, then wanted someone to accompany him, then gave up. You think that means he couldn't be bothered? I think it sounds like he was having problems and lost confidence in it. I.e., he got scared. There are training courses, did he go on one? Would it be something to offer?
[I just looked them up and came across this on the .gov website -
"Rule 46 These vehicles MUST NOT be used on motorways (see Rule 253)."
No kidding.]
Meanwhile, he had an appointment to keep and needed a way to get there. He dropped hints to you, which you refused to pick up. Wouldn't it have been better to say frankly "I'm not taking you. So, how will you solve this?" But since you didn't it isn't his fault, either, that his elderly cousin hasn't the sense he was born with or the backbone to say no.
It IS frustrating, and it does feel like he's constantly imposing, and there are better options for him. But the actual problems are real enough. It's no good getting him part of the way and then just leaving him to solve the rest on his own.
He went out on his own a few times. No problems at all. Then my SIL started she'd go with him, so he started to not go out on his own. It was easier to wait for someone to go with him.
So then his cousin offered to push him in the manual wheelchair. Even easier again for him.
Honestly, I've seen it a million times with him. Sky TV he is the expert. Knows it inside out, how to reset box etc. Because if it plays up he has to do it or doesnt get to watch the TV so has no choice.
p.s. Andy Powell the welsh rugby player drove a golf cart down the M4 once!
"Not a chance! 😘 Thanks for taking him, but let that be a lesson to you."
Never apologise, never explain.
Mobility scooters are a mixed blessing, because they have to be operated right and they have to be left somewhere they won't be vandalised, and I know from experience that getting a call to go and retrieve one when its battery has gone flat and it's been left in an inaccessible courtyard attached to a library is your whole Saturday written off.
Dad's options:
Ask for assistance from RVS or similar services.
Take a cab.
Find a visiting optician - there are growing numbers of these, I believe SpecSavers and the usual suspects are getting involved.
Paul's Taxi Services, however, have gone permanently out of business. Alas.
I know full well hes thought hmm take scooter which means I'll have to think a little bit and get on with it, or let someone push me and I can switch off. No contest for his thinking.
Know what you mean about mobility scooters. But the battery on his lasts about a year because he wont use it!
Don't get me started on taxis. He refuses EVER EVER EVER to get a taxi. Waste of money he says. He'll ask me to drive 30 mins to take him 500 yards rather than pay for a taxi. (Like I said he hinted about 10 times for me to "pop up" during work time to take him (its 15 miles from where I work).
Bought him a mobility scooter a few months ago. He used it for a bit then decided it was too hard to use, then only used when someone was with him. It became obvious that he just could not be bothered which is him to a T.
He had an optician appointment yesterday. 1/2 mile from home in local town. He must have hinted 10 times for me to take him. I said no take the scooter. Made up every excuse under the sun "they wont let me in the shop", "they dont have the facilities". Won't listen of course they do.
So I get a text from his cousin yesterday (whos 3 years younger than him only!). Can I take next time because he can't manage next time? Dad had cajoled him into pushing him around, in a manual wheelchair, to the optician then to the doctors and home over a mile and up a steep hill.
Disgusted with my Dads selfish behaviour. I know exactly how hes thinking - why bother to think about taking my scooter when I can sit there and let someone else do it all for me. Totally and utterly selfish.
I wish his cousin had said no of course because I've dragged into it now. I've seen this probably 15-20 times over the years where Dad has taken advantage of people like this.
All I could think yesterday was "You selfish old man"
I never like to moan because everyone has got something going on and we're far from the worse off. I've got a 15 year old and a 5 year old. 15 year old has Aspergers. Wife works part-time but struggles due to Fibromyalgia. I do contract work which happens to be close to home at the moment, but can be 50-60 miles away.
Dad knows all of this. But chooses to ignore and tell me he expects to be put first (yep he says that), and tells me my family "will have to understand" (yep again).
Nuts thing is we go away every year for the weekend to watch cricket. Its hard work and he does my nut but its a weekend away.
This year hes moaning "its too far to travel" (Im driving), "we'll be back late" etc. Doesn't want to go. Next day hes moaning about how he never goes out, never sees anyone. I had to bite my tongue at that one!
There are sheltered housing schemes, care homes and retirement options of every conceivable variety in the region; there is also all kinds of funding available; and all it would take is some fast talking - or at least that, and... Dad's co-operation. Ah. There's the rub.
Personally, I have long suspected that Dad must be accessing a number of services that he hasn't told Paul about. There's no way he's negotiated his current housing and his current health services and his current benefits package on his own; but there's also no particular reason why he should tell Paul, or even remember, about every form that some smiley 25 year old social worker or union official has filled in for him.
Paul can fold his arms completely and his father will still be fine. It's closing his ears to the whining, and sticking to his own choices about what and what not to do that he struggles with - and it ain't easy.
Not sure what you have in the UK when it comes to care homes but u may want to tell Dad he may end up in one if he doesn't do for himself. That you are not in the position to care for him in your home.
Keep sticking by your guns.
PS, who in their right mind would want to marry an 84 yr old man who you have to care for. Not how I would want to live my life.
He lives a 30 minute drive from me. Not real far but still not around the corner. I ended up going to his place on Saturday but I did it because I thought he had been readmitted to the hospital and son would not have been able to get in and get his bills as he does not have a key. I was certainly surprised to find him sitting in his apartment.
I have had plenty of nurses at the ER look at me like I am evil for not falling all over my father while he is there. I guess no one looks at his file and sees that this is the 15th trip so far this year. One time he called me to take him tot he ER for a non emergency because he waited until the weekend when his doctor was not open. I am sure he did that because he thought it would be easier to get me to take him. I told him I would drop him off there but he had to get a cab home. I get there and he insists I come in with him which was not in the plan. I end up sitting there for 2 hours with him waiting to be seen. That was not in the plan. I told him I had to leave and he got all pissy. Finally he was taken back and I told him I was going. Nurse looked at me like I was abandoning him in the woods. I just walked out. I had been through this so many times I lost count. Whatever they had to do for him would only take a few minutes but it would take another 2 hours to process his release. I had already been there 2 hours, I just couldn't give up any more time to just sit there. No one understood that I had done these sit in the ER for 6 hours over nothing stints many many times and I was just done.
To be honest, the emergency services, hospital, GP have got his number now and refuse to come out. I warned him he was going to cause this but he carried on.
I've had MANY fake "can't breathe" or "chest pains". Many many many. I used to rush over hes sitting there in his chair, eating his lunch and watching the TV. No more now - My wifes a nurse so I put her on the phone now (she works in the community and knows what urgent and whats fake). He hates my wife because she finds him out.
Ikdrymim - remind me. You have kids and family to deal with too? I think for me thats the worse. He knows damn well I've got other responsibilities but he doesnt care.
By the looks, Dad has always been a bit selfish. The stand out thing though seems to be hes always been very very small-minded and very very stubborn. Hes also seemed to very keen to take the easy safe option all the time especially if he doesnt have to make an effort.
When I was younger, he was left as single parent. Fair play to him for taking that on of course but some of the decisions he made seem a little strange.
- Got someone he knew at local council to get us council house (social housing) because he didn't want to get into debt and have a mortgage. Ended up for years living on a really bad council estate. (Could have ended up in a life of crime).
- Miles from other family but Dad refused to learn to drive. No need. (more like he didn't want to put the effort in).
- Refused (as he does now) to get a washing machine. Dragged suitcases of clothes miles to his mothers. Apparently, washing clothes is womens work.
Like I said as hes got older, this has all been amplified. His main problem is he won't help himself, or let anyone help him. He likes it as it is even if he has to struggle.
I used to get calls from the hospital. He'd get the nurses to do though. He comes across as such a sweet old man (until he gets going) so, of course, they looked at me as evil son when I refused to pick him up.
In the past, I've just unplugged home phone and let calls go to voicemail on my mobile.
How far away does your Dad live from you?
Yep this "Keep in touch" comment annoys the hell out of me. Its his passive-aggressive way of saying he won't see me for a long time.
It doesn't *matter* what they think. It only matters what you do. You are going to have grasp this important point.
Does future SIL have children?
SIL has grown up children. Brother has children he just doesn't see them at all. Three kids with 2 different partners. And hes never bothered to force the issue to see them (which Dad agrees with - "oh well it is what it is"). Lets just say we have different views lol.