Follow
Share

For those of you who know my story, you know the relationship that I have with my dad. He is now in the hospital for some health issues and is receiving physical therapy. The doctor wants to recommend a nursing facility after discharge due to the issues. I'm in agreement because he needs help fulltime and I can not do it. But I do not think my dad is going to agree with this because he keeps talking about what he can do on his own and he can't. He was verbally/emotionally abusive to me as a child and to my mother as well. The abuse continued into my adulthood. He is also demanding. Even one of the nurses at the hospital told me that he is. When I go visit him, he finds things for me to do! Such as hand him things that are right by him. The doctor is supposed to talk with us this week but I will working and can not take off work. I'm afraid that decisions will be made without me being there. I have also noticed a change in him cognitively that was not present before. My question is, am I responsible for being a full time caregiver upon discharge? I can’t do it.. I have cried for two days thinking about it. I'm not a bad person, but I know it would not be a positive experience.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
FB, can you be present for the meeting by phone?

Can they change the meeting to a time when you can be there?

Or is it maybe better if you aren't there?

The doctor needs to lay out for dad that he can't go home; he either needs discharge to rehab (is that what is being recommended?) or to LTC.

You are not an option. I trust you have made that clear to the doctors and discharge planners
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

BarbBrooklyn,
I plan to try to reach the doctor by phone. I also spoke with his case manager and told her that I'm not able. She gave me some options to look at for facilities. I think the doctor means LTC. As of right now, he is unable to stand on his own and needs help with everything . He has been receiving therapy and there is some improvement but not enough to live alone. Some of his family members are good at trying to bully me into doing things and I will not allow them this time. I have been the one that has been there for years and they were no where to be found.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
Tiredniece23 Oct 2023
Aren't family members just wonderful in trying to tell you what to do for a loved on, while they go on with their lives?
I know just what you mean. They got away with it before, but not anymore. Stand your ground. No.
(9)
Report
FB, you WILL stand up to those bullies this time

"No, Aunt/Uncle, I cannot quit my job to care for Father. I couldn't do it even if he were cooperative and appreciative, and he's not."

" He needs to be somewhere with people who can make him listen to what he needs to do to stay safe. That's not me."

"No, I do not owe him my life. That idea is laughable. I am the ONLY person who can take care of me. He has other options."

"I won't listen to this any longer. My being his caregiver is not on offer."

Send the discharge planners an email, text, fax or drop off a written letter "I cannot provide care for my father. He will not be safe at home because he will be alone, despite what he may tell you."

Also, since you are NOT his POA, you really have no authority here. Remember, if you decide to help find a rehab/NH for him, you don't sign ANYTHING. HE signs for himself. You are NOT the responsible party

Consider having the state take guardianship.
Helpful Answer (11)
Report
waytomisery Oct 2023
I’m showing this to DH before and after he gets the phone call that his competent mother ( who won’t use a walker , install a stair lift , install grab bars , or get POA set up ) has fallen and has a broken hip .

I hate waiting for the other shoe ( parent ) to drop .
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
"am I responsible for being a full time caregiver upon discharge?"

No.

Sometimes it takes a person a going home & failing before they admit they do in fact need more care.

Read over Barb's tips. They work!

I swear, sometimes I had to fake it til I made it when sounding assertive!
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Maybe don't even research/look at facilities for him, since you are not the POA and cannot ultimately make any decisions for him. This will be removing your from the blame chain when he doesn't like the facility.

Have you made it perfectly clear to the DP that you canNOT be his caregiver, and that he will be unsafe if he goes home? Also make sure that IF he discharges himself to home that you do NOT participate in any such transport home.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Stay strong OP and don't give in to your father's unreasonable demands.

Follow the great advice below and tell all your family members who want you to sacrifice your life for your abusive father to Kiss Your Grits.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

It never ceases to amaze me how easily an “innocent” offspring can be so casually saddled with this kind of responsibility by “loving relatives” of the client needing care.

Has Dad had a formal cognitive evaluation? A lifestyle in-home evaluation by an OT? An assessment of his living quarters and how practically they can be adapted has his limitations increase.

I know of no state in the US that imposes the obligation of physical, hands on care. Any obligation on you might be financial, but I’ve ever known of a case in which that obligation was imposed.

Google “Assisted Living/Memory Care/Skilled Nursing”. There are levels of care that might be a good fit, and incorporate his medical issues into a less restricting environment.

Your situation already appears to be woefully out of balance, and you’re holding the short end of the stick. You are doing too much, and that allows him to be more complacent concerning his own opportunities to do for himself.

Last thought- FOR YOURSELF- Google “Free and Low Cost Counseling”. You need someone to sift through your stuff, help you weed out the stuff (thinking) that is painful for you, and help you assert your right to be a”care manager” not a hands-on “caregiver”.

Yes, you’re RIGHT. GRAB IT.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

You should literally never contact this man again for the rest of his life.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

No, Faithful. You will NOT be legally liable. You have been here on AC a long time, and I think that you know that. It has often been recommended to you here that you simply let Dad and Caregivers know that you will not be assuming his care either in his own home or in yours. As long as you have not legally accepted POA for an incompetent adult, and begun to use it legally, you have no legal duty or responsibility.

It has been suggested that you leave your father to the care of the State guardianship programs. If you choose to see him, visit him, assume care of him that is entirely your OWN CHOICE and your own responsibility.

If it is difficult to absorb this from us why not visit an elder law attorney for LEGAL reassurance.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

This is what happens. You make it perfectly clear that you will not be caring for this man and why. That you are not being involved at all. That if he is deemed 24/7 care then that is an "unsafe discharge". That the State will need to take over his care because there is no one who can do it. You just say NO! Then you block everyone. The relatives, just say "No, this man abused me and Mom and I will not care for him". After that, you ignore them.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

You have NO liability for your father whatsoever. You never have. You don't even hold POA for the man, meaning you have no rights to make decisions on his behalf!

Dad is setting the stage perfectly now, with FOG tactics, to break you down, bit by bit, day by day, to where you throw your hands up in surrender and agree to go care for the "poor soul".

Do not fall for these tactics. You have no rights to make ANY decisions on his behalf! It would be insanity for you to even consider taking on his care w/o being medically trained AND having POA.

Stay strong and let logic prevail. Use your head and not your heart!
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Keep repeating. To self, Dad, hospital/rehab staff, social worker.

What Dad does is his concern.
His choices. His life.

I am not a rehab hospital.
I am not a nursing home.
I am certainly not his care solution.

I am his daughter. My contact level will be of an occasional visitor.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

FB, let us know how you're doing.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
Hi,
Luckily the meeting with the doctor will be Monday instead of tomorrow so I will be there. I plan to talk to my dad today and let him know that he needs full time care. Meanwhile one of his family members is agreeing with him but I know what I see and he is not capable of living alone and I'm not capable or willing to be fulltime caregiver.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
Suggest a televisit because you can’t take off work. You can participate with the appointments from your location by phone or computer. Your work probably wouldn’t object if you ask that it be counted as your lunch break.

Just an idea. And no, you don’t have to do anything for your dad. The more you can stay out of it, the better.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
Luckily, the meeting will be Monday instead of tomorrow so I will be able to be there.
(2)
Report
You are not responsible for your dad. He was responsible for you when you were young. He failed at being a responsible father. Even if he had been a good dad, you don’t owe him anything.

I am glad that you don’t have a cold heart like your father did towards you and your mother. Use the love that is inside you to care for yourself.

Your dad doesn’t have any right to expect you to care for him. There are many people who don’t have children and they are cared for by others. Your father will adjust to others caring for him.

You deserve to have peace in your life.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Daisycat here the same thing happened to me with my mom won't go into all the details.Doctor said she couldn't live alone so I made the decision for her to go to skilled nursing facility because that is where they need to be when we can't take care of them at home. It is the life cycle.Stand strong and tell them you cannot do it.My mom asked me if she could live with me and my two brothers a month at a time I told her no.Not one of the three of us are equipped to take care of her.If at all possible attend the meeting because what you have to say matters.Hope you the best.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
Hi,
My situation is the same. I can’t provide the level of care he needs. Even if I was not working, I still could not. I found out that the meeting will be Monday, instead of tomorrow , so I will be able to be there. I think some people have the misconception ( I know his family does) that me agreeing with the doctor that he needs a nursing facility means I don’t care but me wanting him to be cared for by professionals is caring!
(3)
Report
See 1 more reply
You are working.. he needs more help than you can provide. Leave town…

tell the place they cannot deposit this human without cognitive power to take care of himself… there is no full time help at that address
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

He needs more help than you can provide
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Make sure the hospital knows you can’t take care of him. My parents lied and told the hospital that I lived with them and that I didn’t work in order to go home . I got a phone call from the hospital to pick up my Mom . I had to stop the discharge . Mom needed to go to rehab .
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
@wayto misery.. My goodness!! The doctor was supposed to meet with us tomorrow and I was concerned because I would not be able to be there because I will be at work. So I decided to try to call him a few minutes ago and he is on vacation until Monday. I consider this a blessing because I can be there Monday for this meeting because I was unsure of what my dad would say.
(3)
Report
Yes, you need to be careful, seems the patient is asked who is picking them up or who is caring for them once they are home, but its not confirmed to see if what they say is true. Thats why you need to make the SW know, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be caring for this man. Realize, once you walk out of the buildingvwith Dad, you have taken on the responsibility of his care.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
Hi,
I told the SW that I was unable to care for him and she gave me information on facilities in the area.
(1)
Report
FB, are you sure that this meeting tomorrow was supposed to be with the doctor and the discharge planner?

As many of have mentioned, please put the fact that you will not be providing care or transportation to your father IN WRITING .

Do not be afraid of your father, or of what "others will say". You are the only person who can take care of YOU.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
It was supposed to be with the doctor according to what one of the nurses told me Sunday but the doctor is on vacation. She told me he was meeting with us to recommend a nursing facility. He is not ready to be discharged. I was told by his Case worker that he will be there another two weeks.
(4)
Report
Faithful - no one can *force* you into being your dad's full-time caregiver. No one can make decisions for you about what you will and will not do for your dad upon discharge.

That said, I think you need to step away from your father's hospitalization and discharge planning. As long as you are present in his life, he will not be amenable to a nursing facility.

Call the social worker/case manager right now and tell them that you are not going to be involved in caring for your dad. If they try to persuade you with their "We'll get you home help" baloney, be blunt that "Only a nursing home can help him."

If your father was so awful to you and your mother and remains an entitled and demanding person to the point that you say you're depressed and anxious, why on earth do you keep him in your life? Do you not see that you're in a toxic relationship with him? What are you going to get out of going to this meeting on Monday?
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2023
Excellent response!

The only thing that she will get out of it is conflict with her emotions and possibly health issues that will stem from stress.
(3)
Report
Faithful,

By meeting with discharge planning and social workers, by meeting with doctors (your responses below), by being involved with your father you are painting yourself into a corner of BEING responsible for your father. You are participating in his discharge plans and his care. That is making yourself responsible. You need not to be meeting with all these folks and to tell them that you are not responsible if you don't want to BE responsible. Otherwise, in many ways you are making yourself responsible and I can only wish you good luck with what is your own choice for your life.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
NYDaughterInLaw Oct 2023
Excellent point, Alva.
(1)
Report
See 3 more replies
If you don’t want to be responsible for him , do not get involved with picking out a facility. Let the state take over .

If you want the state to take over tell them you are not able to take care of him and are not available in any way in the planning of his care . Let social workers find a facility .

My fear is if you get involved, it will be a huge mess because your father may refuse to go to a facility . Then it will be a headache for you being stuck with him if they decide he’s able to make decisions and discharge him to his home . They are more likely to do that if a family member is in the conversation .

Sometimes it’s best to say you can’t help in any way and walk away , so then the hospital can force your father to go to a facility .

Also no matter what ….do not be his transportation anywhere , he will refuse to get out of the car if you take him to a nursing home .

Three times the hospital tried to get me to be transportation to take my parents to rehab. I refused every-time because I knew my parents would demand I take them home and they would refuse to get out of the car if I took them from the hospital to rehab . I made the hospital arrange ambulette service. And now my husband always does the same with his father as well . These old people lie to these hospital social workers and say “ Oh yeah my daughter can pick me up “. Nope . Don’t do it .
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Beatty Oct 2023
I used to get stressed about being told I was/would be the pickup service. I suppose at that stage I was still somewhat conflicted about it.
*I must help* vs *how much can I reasonably do*

Not now. I have clearer vision to what I will or will not do.

Past incidents of refusal to go to respite/rehab, stalling, manipulation - performances of passive aggressive feigned inability to get in or out of the car - actual mobility problems, incontinence.

All this now falls under the heading of "No. Need another option".
(2)
Report
Faithful,

Please listen to those who are telling you to stop being involved. You are not obligated to meet with anyone. Your dad and the staff can work this out without your input.

Don’t place this burden upon yourself. You had no control over things as a child but you do now.

Years ago, my mother asked me to look after my oldest brother’s welfare after he had a serious accident.

I checked in on him at the hospital for my mom. Very soon afterwards I realized that I couldn’t be any part of his care due to how he lived his life.

I told my mother that he was her son, not mine and that I was not going to get involved with his care at all.

Mom wasn’t happy about it at first but eventually realized that it was for the best that I walked away from helping him.

I didn’t attend any meetings to sort out his future care.

I was sick and tired of his manipulation and completely walked away. He asked to move into my home which was never going to happen. I didn’t see him again until shortly before he died in a hospice facility. I took my mom to say goodbye to her first born son.

Look after yourself now. The rest will fall into place however it does. You can help him by showing him how to help himself.

A lot of times people will listen to other people far better than family members, and if they don’t they will suffer the consequences of their actions.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Beauty, there is now a 2 week reprieve from his rehab exit, right??

If so, I’d suggest that you use any visit and any conversation with his MDs and the facility to let them know that you “there is no safe and secure discharge in his home to return to as you will not be there AND you will not be involved in his placement & that in addition - as you are not his POA - that you will not and cannot sign off to any responsibility for his placement”. Should anyone continue to try to push responsibility onto you, tell them “my father abused me in my childhood” and that “due to this it is beyond difficult to discuss this further”. Case closed. Be fixed and firm with this. Walk out of the NH or a meeting if need be.

Your dad will try his best to continue to emesh you in FOG.
He has been wildly successful in doing this in the past, but no longer!
He will deny or deflect from whatever happened in your childhood to you & your mom. As will other family members.
You owe him & them zero.
We are here for you.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
faithfulbeauty Oct 2023
Yes, that is correct. He has a couple of more weeks in the hospital.
(1)
Report
Bounce, I hear your compassion for Faithful in your posts.

Many of us here worked well with discharge planners because we had mentally well, non-abusive parents who understood that they needed to go to LTC, and discharge planners who understood without asking that none of the professionals ("the kids") in the meeting was going to be providing care. The question never arose.

FB has only recently returned to work. She has an abusive, entitled father who has already told family members that her job is temporary and that she will be quitting to provide him with care in his home. Her relatives are already piling on with the "you are obligated to do this" speeches, making her feel guilty, doubtful of her own stance and vulnerable.

Our fear is that she will agree to look at homes. And then be persuaded to become POA. And end up being called relentlessly by her abusive father to fix this, that and the other thing. And to take him home.

That's my worry. Which is why I'm thinking that backing off now might be a good idea.
Helpful Answer (10)
Report
waytomisery Oct 2023
Amen !
I agree FB is vulnerable , as she stated
she has “ bigger heart “.
I did too and it took a long time to recover and get my life back .
It’s so easy to get lost in FOG .
(5)
Report
See 7 more replies
Faithful,

You are having trouble abruptly walking away. It can be hard because it is in your nature to be kindhearted.

You have already told your dad that you will not be caring for him. That’s done.

Why do you feel like you must meet with the staff?

If you are feeling like you shouldn’t walk away without personally addressing any issues, you can easily write a note saying that you are not going to be involved any longer in your father’s care.

All loose ends will be wrapped up with the least amount of stress. You can be at peace with not having to interact with the staff directly.

Think of it as writing a letter of resignation. Briefly explain your reasons only if you want to. You don’t owe them any explanation if you would rather not state your reasons.

Wishing you all the best as you transition into living peacefully on the other side of this difficult situation.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

FB

((((Hugs)))) and Courage to you !!!!
You can do this 👍🏻.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Helper vs Servitude

Sometimes someone kind-hearted, big-hearted has been trained to be the *helper* all their life. Be a good girl & do... what a great help you are.. it's not evil. Just being trained up to be useful. But.. the power imbalance of adult : child can sometimes be misused. A parent can assume their child is their servant. This is wrong - can slide into abuse.

So to step back, walk away, say no, can feel like a huge dent to that self-worth of being a helper/kind-hearted. Being *good*.

This can be all-or-nothing thinking.

I must help - or I am not good.
I must fix their problem - or I am not good.
I must do as they say - or I am not good.

Silly right?

What about respect instead?

Eg I respect it is your decision Dad.
To choose LTC, rehab, home with adequate services or home alone with none. You are free to decide - also free to change your mind.

However, you cannot decide for me. Cannot decide about my job, my time or what I will do.

A person can be very big-hearted, be proud of that, be respectful - but not a servant.
Helpful Answer (11)
Report
Tiredniece23 Oct 2023
👏👏👏I needed to read this.
(3)
Report
See 2 more replies
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter