Does the POA have the right to delegate tasks to family members as well as bills?
From your experience, doe the POA have the right to delegate tasks to famly members as well as bills? My brother who is POA states he can. His leadership style is very authoritive and he often delegates tasks without speaking to the individual first instead and asking if they are ok or comfortable with the task. I asked him not to do this as it is disrespectful.
He is threatening getting authorities involved against other siblings for possible lack to follow through with tasks or what he considers neglect.
The home equity loan against the home is not fully in effect due to him stating "the bank is losing docuements ,every slow" etc. He is demanded loans with family members to help pay for home care for her. To protect myself, I told him I need a document in writing, with certain conditions and one approved by my attorney before doing an unofficial home loan. In my experience, unofficial home loans with family members is not the smartest thing to do.
Has anyone else been in this situation and if so, any advice.
Honestly, there is so much infighting between siblings as hard as it will be to do this, making my mother ward of the state might be the better option.
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As POA he is authorized to act in lieu of your parent (assuming this is a parent we are talking about) as long as your parent delegates that task to him or your parent is unable to do an authorized task.
Your brother can only insist you do something you are legally obligated to do. Ask him what makes you legally obligated to do something. There ARE situations where children can be held liable to nursing home care - I would talk with an elder law attorney in your state (https://www.naela.org/).
As for the loan - it absolutely needs to be in writing and reviewed by your attorney. If it is against the value of the home, then a lien of some kind might be warranted along with the loan doc. But you definitely will want an attorney for such things.
Sibling situations can be tough. You are not alone by any means.
I aggree I should not offer to pay for anything without anything in writing. Sadly it may leave to my mother being admitted to a nursing home via my brother (not sure POA can do this). Thanks so much for your support.
There is a lot online about the powers and duties of a POA which is a fiduciary duty under the law. You should advise your brother to see an elder law attorney and tell him he clearly doesn't understand his duties and obligations under the law and needs an education. You can also tell him that he can, as POA, hire a fiduciary to help him sort out bill payments. Your parent's funds stand to pay their bills. When there is no longer funds to do this the fiduciary will have to file for financial aid and help for the parent. But the job is all his. And he's welcome to it. It's an onerous and difficult task, made more so by his serious lack of knowledge.
No he can NOT force anyone to do anything. Period. Let him threaten all he wants to.
As POA it is HIS responsibility to make sure things get done and bills are taken care of. That is all on him not any of you or your siblings.
So let him bark his orders at you all he wants but remind him that all of this is now HIS responsibility not yours and if he can't handle it, then he may want to give up being your moms POA.
POA means that he is your LOs representative. It does not give him the right to demand anything from you. If there is no money for LOs care, and LO needs 24/7 care, then he needs to place LO in a Long-term care facility with Medicaid paying for LOs care. Neither the POA or other children need to pay out of pocket for bills, ect.
As a POA he can pay someone to do tasks he can't do. Like paying a tax person to do LOs taxes.
What Elisny is talking about is Filial laws only 27 states have them. They are on the books from before Medicaid and Social Security. Basically, it made the children responsible to make sure parents received the basic necessities. Shelter, food, clothing and heat. They are rarely enforced with all the Social Services out there to help now. The childs financial ability is taken into consideration. Your brother has an option, if LO can no longer afford for care in an AL, LTC is the option with Medicaid paying.
I doubt authorities could do anything. They may consider it a family matter. And to hire a lawyer means its out of his pocket because it seems LO has no money.
Good idea to get the loan in writing. Have it notarized. Is he trying to get an equity loan using LOs house? Not sure if as a POA he can do that. The LO may have to sign off on that. I would think he has to guarantee the e loan will be paid off. There are payments involved. If LO does not have the money to do it then brother probably has to make payments. That maybe the hold up at the bank. I think I would call the bank and run it by a loan officer hypothetically. What if...
He's a jerk.
You have no obligation to do ANY tasks for your mother.
It's not a fun job, so let him have it. Don't get involved any more than you must.
As for nursing homes, they aren't awful. They are where our LOs can be taken are of by professionals according to their needs. Home isn't always the best place for that.
Good luck!
I am also interested on how he will get authorities to do his bidding. He has to pay them as well
1. Help him out.
2. Don’t help.
I would explain to him that you are not his servant are not obliged to do anything but if I were you I would help, though, because otherwise he will resent you and maybe even resign the POA and let it become someone else’s problem. Maybe yours. It’s a delicate situation.
I also have to say that he can’t really threaten you with neglect if he is the POA. However, he can resign the POA and then call APS if no one else steps up to the plate. I have been tempted to do that many times myself when I feel I am doing more than my fair share. Maybe if the alternative is a court appointed conservator it gets people all their butts - or not, but then at least we all know where we stand.
As for the loan, hell no. Do not do it.
Where is her money going? If it isn't enough to pay for her care in home then its time to find somewhere else for her.
I was representative payee for my BIL I had to pay all of his bills for him including where he was living. Then one day he landed in the hospital then in a NH I had to pay for that nursing home while getting him on Medicaid. Had to spend down his finances so that I could get him on Medicaid which I did finally. I didn't ask any of his family members to help it wasn't right to do. I didn't get paid for any of the paperwork that I did for him.
You need an attorney to help here. Or turn him into Dept of Human Services let them find what is going on with her. All the paperwork would have to be reveal to where her money is going hope he has kept records because you will need them when she passes incase someone wants to know. I have to keep my BIL's paperwork for 5yrs or longer. And with his family I should keep it until he passes because they will go after his money.
Prayers
My sibling tried this with me after I was the only one doing everything for my mom while he did nothing. He started telling me how he wanted things done because he had power…..he was POA.
I told him that I was done & he could do everything himself from then on. He was so angry & spiteful that I did that he blocked myself & my sons from seeing my mom for almost 4 years until she passed.
WATCH OUT FOR CONTROLLING SIBLINGS!
The right to make healthcare decisions, including diagnostics and continuing or stopping medical treatments.
The right to select and hire doctors or caregivers.
The right to decide on long-term living arrangements as they relate to medical care.
The right to open a lawsuit on behalf of the Principal and sign any necessary legal documents.
The right to receive certain forms of income on behalf of the Principal.
The Limitations of POA
The POA cannot transfer the responsibility to another Agent at any time.
The POA cannot make any legal or financial decisions after the death of the Principal, at which point the Executor of the Estate would take over.
The POA cannot distribute inheritances or transfer assets after the death of the Principal.
The POA cannot change or invalidate your Will or any other Estate Planning documents.
The POA cannot change or violate the terms of the nominating documents -- otherwise they can be held legally responsible for fraud or negligence.
The POA cannot act outside of the Principal’s best interest.
The POA cannot make decisions before the document comes into effect -- conditions will be outlined with approval of the Agent and Principal.
The POA cannot be officially nominated unless the Principal is of sound body and mind.
The POA cannot use the Principal’s assets or money as their own.
The POA cannot take compensation beyond what is outlined within the POA agreement.
The right to make personal, business, or investment-related financial decisions.
The right to open bank accounts, write checks, or sell property for the Principal.
The right to purchase life insurance policies for the Principal.
Your choices are to hold out for a long fight that may well get harder as M deteriorates and more care is demanded by the Demon Brother, or to look around for a NH that is as good as possible. Perhaps you could negotiate extra time at home, with NH transfer in the future – an extra year, a particular need for care (fecal incontinence often tips the balance). Being at home may matter less to M in the future, and this strategy might make it easier to reach agreement with B. As time goes on, M’s world will shrink to four walls, and where they are will be less important than now.
The ‘ward of the state’ option will remove any say you have now, and really is likely to result in the NH option you don’t want. Negotiation would be better.
Rather than telling him to go to H_ _ _, a better course of action might be to type out Powers of POA, mail to brother, and "cc" to other siblings. If siblings cannot get along, I do not know "how it is done" for your mother to become a ward of the County or State, but it sadly might be the best option. Sad, very sad.
You can tell your brother that you are going to or choose not to tell him and, surprise him with your new found knowledge and understanding and, then go from there based on what the Elder Law Attorney advises. Your brother may be deemed incompetent to remain as POA . Yes, this will incur a fee, but without the direction of an Elder Law Attorney you and your family not to mention the patient may suffer much loss financially not to mention sanity.
The OP can file a petition for conservatorship in the probate court in the town the other lives in for free.
By law, the mother will be appointed an attorney to represent her in the proceedings that get paid for by her money.
Whatever "authorities" he's threatening you and your siblings with if you don't do his bidding and come up with money to pay caregivers, will laugh in his face if he tries to file a complaint about such nonsense.
Also, if he doesn't properly carry out his duties as your mother's POA, she will become a ward of the state. It will not be a choice made by him or anyone else.
So tell him this.
Please don't be a fool and borrow on your house to pay for your mother's caregivers. That's ridiculous.
If your mother has a house and assets, that's what pays for her care. If she doesn't, then Medicaid is what pays for it.
I think you should speak to the Ombudsman's Office in the state your mother lives in and explain what's going on with him as POA. It is possible to forcibly have him removed.
In the meantime, you or one of your other siblings should make a petition in the probate court for conervatorship/guardianship over your mother.
If you can clearly show that your brother is not acting in her best interests, demands money and services from the family, and expects you to borrow on your house to pay for her care, there's a good chance a judge will award conservatorship/guardianship to you or one of your siblings.
If that happens, your brother's POA is out the window.
Is emergency guardianship only if the person is incapacitated? I think if you’re mentally competent, the court can’t impose a guardian.
FYI in most states there is nothing that requires a PoA to prove their authority to other people (ie family, people who are not "doing business" in any way with the LO). But, you can have an elder law attorney draft a letter demanding he present the paperwork or else he will be asked to show a judge in court.
Your brother sounds like he doesn't know what he's doing; knows what he's doing and choosing to abuse his authority. Either way he shouldn't be the PoA, if he actually is.
He's full of crap in any event.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-is-a-power-of-attorney
In part, it says:
What is a power of attorney (POA)?
This article is for informational purposes. This content is not legal advice, it is the expression of the author and has not been evaluated by LegalZoom for accuracy or changes in the law.
Contents
updated September 7, 2023
What are the limits of a power of attorney?
How to set up power of attorney
Discuss the role with attorney-in-fact candidates
Talk frankly and ask questions
Choose the right type of power of attorney
How to set up a power of attorney
Military powers of attorney are unique
Disadvantages and liabilities to powers of attorney
What's good about powers of attorney
Power of attorney (POA) documents give one or more people the power to act on your behalf as your attorney-in-fact or agent when you aren't able to be there in person or are otherwise mentally incompetent or physically unable to represent yourself.
There are many times when having a financial power of attorney is essential, including some garden-variety occasions when a POA document is simply convenient. For instance, you might give someone like your real estate professional limited financial power of attorney to handle the real estate closing for the purchase or sale of your home so you don't have to show up. Or you might give someone limited power of attorney to go to the DMV and sign an automobile title on your behalf.
It isn't a matter of what the experience is of people here.
It is the law that decides the responsibilities, duties, and limits of the POA.
To be legally informed, talk to an attorney. S/he may suggest they (or you) write a formal letter to your brother stating the legality of his role.
Gena / Touch Matters
All the kids should contribute to get mom care she needs - although that seldom happens. First off, ask to see the loan application to find out when it got started. Also, ask him to give bank your name (or another sibling) as authorized to get information about the loan process. Then someone else call the bank to find out what the delay is, is there a chance it will not be approved, or when monies can be expected. If all he says is on the up and up, then move forward with getting an atty to fix you a loan contract.
One part not clear is: Is mom of sound mind to sign papers for a loan? Is house only in her name. Is his name on the house? If house in mom's name alone and has mental/dementia issues, she won't be able to sign documents. Assuming brothers POA is being used to conduct business for her and there are certain issues that could be creating delay in the loan - customer service ain't what it used to be. POA can only conduct business on mom's behalf. He can't make anyone come up with money to cover any expense: some folks will give willingly, some won't give a dime to family while they entertain the heck out of friends, and some just don't have it to give. Guess he can try to threaten, but there's no real bite to that growl. -- You might look up familial responsibility for your state, though. Some do hold children responsible, as I've read on this site.
In the meanwhile, if mom needs in home help and everyone dragging their feet because brother rubs them the wrong way - I have to wonder... who is providing the in-home help that mom needs? Maybe it's time to have a little one on one with brother and let him know giving orders comes off a little harsh. Perhaps he's stressed about being the point guy and y'all could work this out by being a little kinder to each other.
I would think twice about the 'ward of the state' thing. I mean, doing so means your mom has no one who wants to protect her/her decisions. Y'all are arguing, but is there not one of you who wants to help her at this point in her life? Are all of you going be totally ok if a judge appoints someone (like maybe a cousin who steps up to the plate, or total stranger) to make mom's decisions? As in, sell her home and use the money to pay for nursing home until the cash runs out? And depending on how you act or what you say in court, what if judge told y'all to stay away from her? Not really sure what could happen under the guardianship of a court, but pretty sure it's not what your mom would want.
You can research POA forms and read them online for yourself.
And. I'd tell my brother to provide me with a copy of the POA document that he has, giving him such authority.
Peace.