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I would suggest your local council on aging for some resources. And I would call your doctor, ask how to get hold of a social worker to help you apply for Medicaid and other governmental funding. I also think that you likely know to reach out to the local VA for help.
I am so sorry. That you are not alone is no comfort to you. I hope you will update us.
I think its too late to save the house unless you bid on it.
Your profile says they both suffer from a Dementia. Who was overseeing them? Did anyone have POA? If they have no place to go, you need to get Adult Protection Services involved. Sounds to me these two should have been placed in Long-term care. Those suffering from Dementia can't care for themselves. APS can have the State assign them guardians and get the placed.
issue #1, have they been served an eviction? This should have a court hearing date. And should have info on a probono legal clinic on the eviction letter. They / you should contact the legal clinic to find out how evictions run for where they live and what the clinic and APS can do for them.
Issue #2 on the house: Is it an actual foreclosure? Like they had a mortgage or other securitized lending on the home and they failed to pay the loan….. so the lender called in the loan. The foreclosure would be the final act so to speak on the calling in of the outstanding loan. Is this what is happening?? OR Is this a Reverse Mortgage foreclosure? for either of these, tends to be a Realtor or two that specialize in sales of distressed properties (short sales, bankruptcies, foreclosures). That’s who I’d try to find via Google search and contact to find what you need to do to place a bid for the sale. Unless you can be there in person, cash / cashiers check in hand. The rules for amount of cash needed upfront & how the Act of Sale has to be done vary on the type of distress the property is under. Most Realtors don’t deal with these at all. OR is it a tax sale? Like they are late in paying property taxes. So it’s delinquent (would be from last year) and the tax collector has put it up for its annual or semi annual sale. And if it is a tax sale, is it on the docket for the very 1st time? if it this, this is totally 100% fixable. And it’s not a rush to get done. Or is this the latest of many other delinquent property tax sales and if so how many times before? Fwiw the # of times before matter as it could actually be a Redemption that is being done so a Tax Sale Deed will be issued, this is more serious. Usually it’s 3 sales and then full redemption is done at yr 4 for most counties. There is required notification in the newspaper for tax sales and tax redemption. But old owners have to be notified. And until 5 or so years pass OR something substantially is done to the property after full redemption, you on behalf of the owner can go b4 the judge (usually chancery court) to say “dementia & didn’t understand” and then you pay the person who did the tax sale deed redemption all the $ they paid plus all the fees and intere$$$t to date and court cost and property can revert back. Judges tend to allow it if not too much time has passed and zero done on property. And this too is not a rush to get done as it’s kinda reverseable.
so what type of sale is it??
fwiw I’ve done tax sales. If this is an online tax sale, they are imho not easy to wade thru and confusing & you really don’t have time to do it as there’s tax ID forms & $ deposits required to be done ahead of bidding. If this is an actual at the courthouse in a room where you put cash $ up and get a bidder #, that’s easy peasy for family or adjacent owners to get the tax sale deed for that year as it tends to be overwhelmingly locals there and very “gentlemen’s/women’s agreement” on not bidding against you. Or you give them the stink eye if they bid against you and they then lower their bid card, lol. It could be a few days to go thru all the delinquencies if it just starts tomorrow if the county is big.
I’d like to add if this is a Reverse Mortgage foreclosure, what likely happened is that they defaulted on terms of the RM. So RM called in the loan. Yes RMs allow them to live in the home till forever. HOWEVER the RM requires the owner to pay property taxes, insurance AND do/pay all required upkeep and maintenance on the property under terms of the RM. RMs look at Google earth images to see what prop looks like and if they look sad or unkept, they will send out a subcontractor to see what’s what and photo document the exterior of the house. Then a Notice goes out that they are out of compliance with Terms of the RM and X# of days to do repairs or the loan gets called in. It’s serious stuff. RMs DNGAF. There was an other poster (a daughter) on this forum in Jan/February whose mom was in this position on her RM. The mom’s health issues were bad, front door could not open, taxes not paid. Process server did eviction notice. APS got involved. Mom hospitalized then into board & care. Please try to find out if it’s this type of seriousness for your Aunt & Uncle.
They could in theory repay the entire RM loan, it’s hefty interest & fees but it’s probably going to be quite a tidy sum, maybe more than it’s worth at unmaintained state. Your lending the $ not a good idea, please do not do it!
should you think of moving them to your State, that will be challenging to do imho & experience UNLESS they have significant savings to be able to private pay for care for at least a year for each in a facility in your state. If you should find they actually do have abt 200K somehow squirrelled away and ok to move to NE. Go for it. This issue for moving them otherwise is that Medicaid programs are run by each State for their residents and you / them will have to clearly establish state of NE residency. So anything they own in old state has to be sold with paperwork to show that. The pw on the house up for tax sale you will need, but any cars will have to get sold or transferred/ titled to new state, any other land or real property in old state has to be placed for sale, etc. for them to get eligible for NE LTC Medicaid program (the one that pay’s for custodial care in a facility like a NH). Plus they will need 3-5 years of prior banking & financial statements from old banks. It’s really hard to do this once they have moved away. & Medicaid applications are super time sensitive and will time out for application filing. The facility will expect someone to sign to be financially responsible - you! - should Medicaid find them ineligible so you will be tied to paying their AL or NH. It will be serious $$$.
All this is why having cash to pay for care for 2 elderly and spend down to become NE residents and collect the paperwork needed flat makes it easier to happen over time (6-12 months). If you know they don’t have money then imo they kinda need to stay in their old state. Yeah it breaks your heart as they don’t have local family support around. You or your siblings are going to need to go over & soon to get paperwork out of the house for them as they will need that to be able to file for programs.
IMPT!: if they have gotten an eviction notice, find out what the date is, as really truly someone needs to get into the house with a stack of plastic bins and get whatever looks like old financial & legal paperwork (banking statements especially) as it’s needed for Medicaid purposes. Fwiw LTC Medicaid does not give a rats butt on debts, they are all about income & assets. So any Social security letters, pension notices, 1099 forms, old taxes, funeral preneed policies, life insurance policies….. those all needed for any LTC Medicaid filing. It will be beyond worthwhile to go & try to search to find these items for them b4 sheriffs deputies eviction happens and stuff gets thrown out.
Good luck and remember to download music & movies for the trip. If ya drive, take your favorite adult beverage too,
You need to look beyond just the issue with the house. At 80, and with a wife with dementia, the odds that he can remain actually independent (doing everything for themselves) and/or being able to afford to pay the property taxes, maintain the property, keep it up themselves... diminishes with each passing month. At that point, they're going to need another solution/intervention.
Many an elder has had a romanticized notion or drastically underestimated what it takes to "age in place" -- especially as his wife's conditions worsens (and they both may experience health declines that impact his ability to do ADLs).
Then what? Who is going to be willing to orbit around 2 declining people just to keep up the pretense that they are "independent"? This is the intersection where well-meaning family and friends burn out. Especially if he becomes "proud" and stubborn and resistant to basic help.
This forum is repleat with stories such as this one. My own Mother and Step-father in law lost their home to foreclosure because he took out a second mortgage that ballooned. He had Parkinsons, she had short-term memory loss. It was an exhausting disaster. They were never going to own that home in the end and they were barely scraping by trying to pay for it. He (SFIL) blew it by mismanaging their money.
Sounds like your friend also signed on to something in which he didn't count the cost in the worst-case scenario. You should also not romanticize riding in on a white horse, only to be met with an ugly reality: they need more help than anyone can or should give them.
Bless you for caring and wanting to help but you should be very careful about inserting yourself in this situation. If no one is their Durable or Financial PoA, you will have no legal power anyway. If someone is the PoA for the husband, this should be the person to step in and offer to help navigate this hot mess.
If you are hoping to inherit the home (and I'm not judging you here), he hopefully created a Last Will & Testament leaving it to you (if it doesn't revert to a mortgage company or the county). You will need to know the location of the Will and who the Executor is. If he doesn't have any legal protections in place, you will probably be a spectator watching a slow-motion train wreck. Been there, done that. But still wishing you all the best as you attempt to give them the help he actually needs, not what he thinks he wants.
I would think an eviction notice is part of the process. My GF was told she needed to evacuate her home for a Sheriffs sale. I think she waited till the last minute to vacate which meant that when she went back the next day to get more of her things the house was locked up. She called the Sheriffs office to see if she could get out the rest of her stuff and she was told she was given ample time.
So if this sale was yesterday, IMO those people were told to vacate long before the sale. I wonder what happened.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I would suggest your local council on aging for some resources. And I would call your doctor, ask how to get hold of a social worker to help you apply for Medicaid and other governmental funding. I also think that you likely know to reach out to the local VA for help.
I am so sorry. That you are not alone is no comfort to you. I hope you will update us.
Your profile says they both suffer from a Dementia. Who was overseeing them? Did anyone have POA? If they have no place to go, you need to get Adult Protection Services involved. Sounds to me these two should have been placed in Long-term care. Those suffering from Dementia can't care for themselves. APS can have the State assign them guardians and get the placed.
Issue #2 on the house: Is it an actual foreclosure? Like they had a mortgage or other securitized lending on the home and they failed to pay the loan….. so the lender called in the loan. The foreclosure would be the final act so to speak on the calling in of the outstanding loan. Is this what is happening??
OR
Is this a Reverse Mortgage foreclosure?
for either of these, tends to be a Realtor or two that specialize in sales of distressed properties (short sales, bankruptcies, foreclosures). That’s who I’d try to find via Google search and contact to find what you need to do to place a bid for the sale. Unless you can be there in person, cash / cashiers check in hand. The rules for amount of cash needed upfront & how the Act of Sale has to be done vary on the type of distress the property is under. Most Realtors don’t deal with these at all.
OR
is it a tax sale? Like they are late in paying property taxes. So it’s delinquent (would be from last year) and the tax collector has put it up for its annual or semi annual sale. And if it is a tax sale, is it on the docket for the very 1st time? if it this, this is totally 100% fixable. And it’s not a rush to get done.
Or is this the latest of many other delinquent property tax sales and if so how many times before? Fwiw the # of times before matter as it could actually be a Redemption that is being done so a Tax Sale Deed will be issued, this is more serious. Usually it’s 3 sales and then full redemption is done at yr 4 for most counties. There is required notification in the newspaper for tax sales and tax redemption. But old owners have to be notified. And until 5 or so years pass OR something substantially is done to the property after full redemption, you on behalf of the owner can go b4 the judge (usually chancery court) to say “dementia & didn’t understand” and then you pay the person who did the tax sale deed redemption all the $ they paid plus all the fees and intere$$$t to date and court cost and property can revert back. Judges tend to allow it if not too much time has passed and zero done on property. And this too is not a rush to get done as it’s kinda reverseable.
so what type of sale is it??
fwiw I’ve done tax sales. If this is an online tax sale, they are imho not easy to wade thru and confusing & you really don’t have time to do it as there’s tax ID forms & $ deposits required to be done ahead of bidding. If this is an actual at the courthouse in a room where you put cash $ up and get a bidder #, that’s easy peasy for family or adjacent owners to get the tax sale deed for that year as it tends to be overwhelmingly locals there and very “gentlemen’s/women’s agreement” on not bidding against you. Or you give them the stink eye if they bid against you and they then lower their bid card, lol. It could be a few days to go thru all the delinquencies if it just starts tomorrow if the county is big.
Yes RMs allow them to live in the home till forever. HOWEVER the RM requires the owner to pay property taxes, insurance AND do/pay all required upkeep and maintenance on the property under terms of the RM. RMs look at Google earth images to see what prop looks like and if they look sad or unkept, they will send out a subcontractor to see what’s what and photo document the exterior of the house. Then a Notice goes out that they are out of compliance with Terms of the RM and X# of days to do repairs or the loan gets called in. It’s serious stuff. RMs DNGAF.
There was an other poster (a daughter) on this forum in Jan/February whose mom was in this position on her RM. The mom’s health issues were bad, front door could not open, taxes not paid. Process server did eviction notice. APS got involved. Mom hospitalized then into board & care. Please try to find out if it’s this type of seriousness for your Aunt & Uncle.
They could in theory repay the entire RM loan, it’s hefty interest & fees but it’s probably going to be quite a tidy sum, maybe more than it’s worth at unmaintained state. Your lending the $ not a good idea, please do not do it!
should you think of moving them to your State, that will be challenging to do imho & experience UNLESS they have significant savings to be able to private pay for care for at least a year for each in a facility in your state. If you should find they actually do have abt 200K somehow squirrelled away and ok to move to NE. Go for it. This issue for moving them otherwise is that Medicaid programs are run by each State for their residents and you / them will have to clearly establish state of NE residency. So anything they own in old state has to be sold with paperwork to show that. The pw on the house up for tax sale you will need, but any cars will have to get sold or transferred/ titled to new state, any other land or real property in old state has to be placed for sale, etc. for them to get eligible for NE LTC Medicaid program (the one that pay’s for custodial care in a facility like a NH). Plus they will need 3-5 years of prior banking & financial statements from old banks. It’s really hard to do this once they have moved away. & Medicaid applications are super time sensitive and will time out for application filing. The facility will expect someone to sign to be financially responsible - you! - should Medicaid find them ineligible so you will be tied to paying their AL or NH. It will be serious $$$.
All this is why having cash to pay for care for 2 elderly and spend down to become NE residents and collect the paperwork needed flat makes it easier to happen over time (6-12 months). If you know they don’t have money then imo they kinda need to stay in their old state. Yeah it breaks your heart as they don’t have local family support around. You or your siblings are going to need to go over & soon to get paperwork out of the house for them as they will need that to be able to file for programs.
IMPT!: if they have gotten an eviction notice, find out what the date is, as really truly someone needs to get into the house with a stack of plastic bins and get whatever looks like old financial & legal paperwork (banking statements especially) as it’s needed for Medicaid purposes. Fwiw LTC Medicaid does not give a rats butt on debts, they are all about income & assets. So any Social security letters, pension notices, 1099 forms, old taxes, funeral preneed policies, life insurance policies….. those all needed for any LTC Medicaid filing. It will be beyond worthwhile to go & try to search to find these items for them b4 sheriffs deputies eviction happens and stuff gets thrown out.
Good luck and remember to download music & movies for the trip. If ya drive, take your favorite adult beverage too,
Many an elder has had a romanticized notion or drastically underestimated what it takes to "age in place" -- especially as his wife's conditions worsens (and they both may experience health declines that impact his ability to do ADLs).
Then what? Who is going to be willing to orbit around 2 declining people just to keep up the pretense that they are "independent"? This is the intersection where well-meaning family and friends burn out. Especially if he becomes "proud" and stubborn and resistant to basic help.
This forum is repleat with stories such as this one. My own Mother and Step-father in law lost their home to foreclosure because he took out a second mortgage that ballooned. He had Parkinsons, she had short-term memory loss. It was an exhausting disaster. They were never going to own that home in the end and they were barely scraping by trying to pay for it. He (SFIL) blew it by mismanaging their money.
Sounds like your friend also signed on to something in which he didn't count the cost in the worst-case scenario. You should also not romanticize riding in on a white horse, only to be met with an ugly reality: they need more help than anyone can or should give them.
Bless you for caring and wanting to help but you should be very careful about inserting yourself in this situation. If no one is their Durable or Financial PoA, you will have no legal power anyway. If someone is the PoA for the husband, this should be the person to step in and offer to help navigate this hot mess.
If you are hoping to inherit the home (and I'm not judging you here), he hopefully created a Last Will & Testament leaving it to you (if it doesn't revert to a mortgage company or the county). You will need to know the location of the Will and who the Executor is. If he doesn't have any legal protections in place, you will probably be a spectator watching a slow-motion train wreck. Been there, done that. But still wishing you all the best as you attempt to give them the help he actually needs, not what he thinks he wants.
So if this sale was yesterday, IMO those people were told to vacate long before the sale. I wonder what happened.