Have to take away Dad's driving privileges- but how?

Google Teepa Snow's website and watch the video on people driving and/or losing their driving license and and how to deal with this difficult area / conversation.
Find a new MD.
How do you substantiate his inability to drive when residential facility and MD do not object.
A couple of her main points:
(1) You / family be the 'GOOD GUY' -- supportive, understanding, empathic person. Let Dad know how frustrating and disappointing this feels to him. Make the MD or authorities be the 'BAD GUY.'
(2) Talk to your Dad in a way he feels empowered; make him part of the decision making (watch how she does this on the video).
(3) Teepa does talk about MDs who don't want to get involved (I believe she mentions liability)
* * *
Is an excellent video to watch no matter what the situation is re elders & driving.

People want to drive because then they can go where they want and when. I agree there are times this is no longer possible but I have two things to say: First make absolutely certain that the demand to not drive is one that can be proved for medical and mental reasons - don't just let someone say they are too old or this or that. Second, you MUST provide an alternative that will achieve the same goals - getting to where the person wants to go and when. Either you guarantee rides taking them yourself; or you make sure there is public transportation; or cab drivers, etc. What I am saying is: YOU CANNOT TAKE SOMETHING WAY FROM SOMEONE THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO THEM UNLESS YOU PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO GIVE THE SAME OUTCOME. Otherwise, it is heartbreaking, cruel and a horrible experience.

Gemma said it: IT IS NOT WORTH THE RISK !!

Me: It is not worth the worrying. It is not worth the lives, lawsuit, injuries.. DAD'S included...

IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT.. PERIOD.

So you want him happy, or in a law suit because he is 93, and he is the old dude "who caused the accident"... Your choice...

When was the last time you drove with Dad? Seriously... Are you able to hang in there without winching? Or scringing ? or reacting to a role away stop, or barely hitting the brakes or gas pedal or pedestrian, or traffic post?

Yup, my brother, The Fireman, told me to take mom's car away... He did'nt want ma to go into court for a lawsuit that she didn't cause..... plus the thought of losing everything.

Is the doctor willing to pay all damages to the other party cuz he didn't want to see your dad DEPRESSED? I DON'T THINK SO........If you are not sure if the doctor thinks.. ASK THE DOCTOR DIRECTLY..."doc, do you think dad's depression or lack of depression is more important than the lives of people around a person whose reactions may be slower due to his age? hmmm?

DO YOURSELVES A FAVOR: SCHEDULE A DMV DRIVING TEST FOR DAD WHERE HE HAS TO GET BEHIND THE WHEEL WITH AN OFFICIAL... And then lose the keys and the car.... Just remember more accidents occur within the first (5) miles from home.. Or, is that number closer to one or two miles from home? I forget... either way, I would rather see my ma and pa depressed than seeing them hit the gas instead of the brake.... This happened in Santa Monica, CA a number years ago.. The poor old man didn't know what happened, and panicked and kept driving over people....a lot of people got hurt.
Then a company came in and sold their posts that are installed in most public places... they stop the vehicles basically immediately... They don't bend, they block vehicles from moving forward...I am sure more than one company makes these, but they work. Well, all I know posts are being placed in more public areas than before... good thing...

Think about it.. Take the doctor's opinion or anyone else's, mine included, and put it on the shelf for now... What matters most to your family? I think the answer will be: Safety for everyone....

In my area there is an occupational therapy driving exam that a doctor can prescribe. It’s a combination cognitive and driving evaluation. Then they make a recommendation to the doctor. It’s not done through DMV but results can be reported to DMV. You could see if there is such a think in your area perhaps by calling a geriatrics department or social/aging care services.
My mom is too forgetful and distracted to drive. We let the car battery die and it sits in her driveway. Now the tags have expired. She either has no idea how or has her own reservations about driving.. but the car hasn’t moved. But man does she ever complain about not driving. Of course we offer to take her wherever she wants.. but she’s mad and sad about not driving. But we simply will not risk her or another persons injury by letting her drive. It’s just not that important, and not worth the risk.
Good luck.

I am new here but this is a topic that I think about a lot.

Dad is only 71 but he has late stage Parkinson's Disease along with a host of other medical issues. If you met him you'd think he was in his 90's. My mother passed about 7 years ago and he lives with me full time.

We deal with this by only having one car, and I offer to drive him anywhere we go and he doesn't object. Because of my new job, I need to purchase a truck before snow flies so I can plow my own driveway, so there will be a second registered vehicle on the property. I'm still brainstorming ideas for how to make that work.

Right now we haven't had "the talk," and for the most part he's OK with not driving. Every now and then when we're out of milk or something critical, he half-heartedly offers to do the errand, but I think he knows I won't go for that.

I have brought it up multiple times with his neurologist, who refuses to play the heavy and report it to DMV. That's extremely frustrating for me.

I don't think I have an answer for you, but I wanted to let you know that this is a difficult topic and many people can empathize.

Well don't look at me...my dad is 102, bought a new vehicle about a year ago. He volunteers nearby at Meals On Wheels every week day. When he turned 90 the people at Meals On Wheels sort of realized it and went OMG and decided he couldn't be a driver. Just like that. Clean record...and being smacked with ageism at its worst. At least imo. It wasn't as if MOW was insuring him. Had it been me, I would have said I'll take my energies elsewhere, but he carved out a new role for himself packing things up and continues to this day as one of the longest serving volunteers (and oldest!) they have. He should be everyone's role model... driving means so much to him that he sneakily calculated things and so before he turned 100 and had to renew his license he made arrangements to see an eye doctor and get his cataracts tended to so he'd be sure to pass the vision screening. They weren't even that bad. There was some funky thing causing a restriction on his license due to prior optician visit...so we had to go to the BMV to get that cleared up, and they had to call Columbus to confirm how to do it. Clerk got off the phone and smiled and said Columbus says Congratulations! The uniformed types in the vicinity just rolled their eyes...but truly, I do think he's a safe driver, and certainly no more dangerous that those idiots with the texting etc. Ah, yeah, he does have an iphone, but he doesn't use it when driving. He uses it to help communicate because he is deaf...I will tell you though...it has made me more religious...praying nothing happens...I think there is a program called Keeping Us Safe that helps assess older drivers...but I'm guessing in this case you'd probably just be wasting the money....

I had the doctor tell him.

This is one of the worst problems we must face with elderly people. I will speak for myself and my life's experiences. I will be 86 and have no family except my kitty. I still drive, thank god, and very safely as my friends tell me to drive when they visit me. However, I know what it feels like not to have a car. Without going into details, I desperately needed a ride - two miles - to get my car fixed and picked up again. I begged, pleaded, did everything under the sun to get the two mile ride but not a living soul was giving me a ride. I knew I had to hitch hike (I have done it on a couple of occasions because I had no choice and I was terrified but it worked out - I hated it). I called every possible option for a ride - nothing. Finally, through sheer luck, a teen ager I never met, gave me a ride. So, what I am trying to say is this. There are times when it is perfectly valid for someone to stop driving but YOU CANNOT JUST STOP THEM FROM DRIVING - YOU MUST MAKE ALTERNATIVES AVAILABLE TO THEM. That simply means you MUST ASSURE THEM that if they want to go somewhere or do something that there will be transportation both ways. Unless you are willing to go out of your way and make sure this is possible, don't expect them to stop driving without a major atomic bomb going off. And I have to agree with them. They are losing their independence, self-respect, are scared and frustrated. You can and will get the keys away from them BUT YOU MUST ASSURE THEM THEY WILL HAVE TRANSPORTATION.....And you better keep your word or your non-response will destroy them. There is no other solution - and this is a fair one.

My dad was being advised by my sisters to quit driving. But I felt he was in some ways a better driver than they were.

He did have problems driving us, primarily because he would be distracted, by us. He would talk, wave his hands, and point to landmarks, and tell stories. While driving. I told him, if you want to drive, you have to concentrate on driving.

Anyway he enrolled in a program at the Veterans Admin. “Driving rehab”. They taught him and tested him. He passed their test!

A couple of years later he quit driving voluntarily after he had a stroke.

I find it hard to believe that his DR would say something like that. It is a man thing, sounds like the DR is reflecting on his own feelings. My father was moving down here near me in Fl, I told him when he moved here we were going to turn his license in, he said ok. My father was a terrible driver, come to fine out he had several fender benders that I was not told about. Unfortunately, he never moved here. In February we placed my brothers father and wife in a AL home in AZ, my brother just told them no more driving, he took them to the DMV and turned their licenses in, we sold their car and home. Unfortunately, we are now having to move them to another home, near us. They did not fight us on anything, it made everything much easier, his health is terrible but his mind is ok, she...not so much...mentally she is going down hill quickly. They now take the county bus, bus from the home or Uber.

I commend you for your awareness in this area -- it will keep your dad safe and the others that may share the road with him. But it is not a pleasant topic to broach for most seniors, especially the men, and a point of contention with their children. If someone came up to you and tried to snatch something away, wouldn't you react defensively? That's what it must feel like.

Before you take further action:
- have you inspected his car for signs of newer bumps, scratches and scrapes?
- do you know for a fact that he is taking all his required medication or sticking to a medically required diet (e.g. diabetes) faithfully?
- is he willing to get his hearing checked as a condition to drive during the day?
- does he have hearing aids but doesn't wear them?
- does he drive at night?
- does he go far?
- is he flexible enough to turn his head to check blind spots?
- does he stay in his lane?

Also, reaction time is a critical skill + this diminishes with age.

I had concerns about my 93-yr old aunt in FL driving when I visited & saw her car looked like it had been in a pinball machine and she said she couldn't remember where any of the damage came from. She was totally resistant to not driving so I started a strategy to make it less necessary.

- I asked local relatives, friends and neighbors to take her to scheduled appointments (like medical, hair, church) and I gave them money on the sly to take her out to lunch during that trip so that it was also a social event that she looked forward to.

- I had groceries delivered to her doorstep

- I eventually hired Visiting Angels to provide a companion who came several days a week to hang out with her and take her places. She loves her companion. Her car is still in her garage and keys still on the wall and I think she has forgotten how to drive or that she ever did (she has some dementia and short-term cognitive decline now at age 97).
- As I was employing this strategy I also wrote an anonymous letter to the FL DMV (along with her ID info, name/address/license # ) and made a detailed case as to why she should be called in for an in-person test. She didn't pass the eye exam, as it turned out. And she never knew I was the one who contacted the state. You should do this right away with your dad.

A sad driving story:
I had an aged uncle and his wife (both in their late 80's) who were very vital and still showing up part time to work in the large plumbing contractor company they had started. He was driving with her during the late afternoon and had a "senior moment" and went through a red light. They were T-boned by another car and she was killed instantly (as was their dog who was in her lap). Thankfully, the other victims were not seriously hurt, nor was my uncle. My aunt had survived ovarian cancer and a rare heart illness. Her death sent my uncle into an untreatable depression, caused dementia to set in rapidly and he died within 2 years of the incident. My uncle was mentally very sharp, but seniors can become fatigued earlier in the day, or have lapses of judgement and attention that we may not pick up on in casual contact with them. It is a tricky grey area and this is why "transitioning out of driving" may be the best path.

Other strategies:
- you say your dad keeps the keys in his pocket. If you are convinced he is an immediate concern, you can remove some part of his engine (like his distributor cap or unplug his battery). With my mom-in-law I asked to borrow her van to move something then drove it to my house and parked it there and told her it broke down and was "in the shop".

- can you locate his other set of keys?

- help him look at the financial aspect: the cost of having & maintaining a car, the gas, the insurance, the tabs, etc. This may be eye-opening for him.

Offer to occasionally drive your dad places and make it a lunch/dinner date. He'll like that a lot. Then you can discuss it during a less stressful moment.

Good luck!

Please Let me apologize for the people who lambasted to you and tried to equate your concerns with the concerns of people who are handicapped or deaf. My dad changed 2 lanes driving alone and ran a guy off the road, who reacted with so much road rage he followed my father home and called the police. My father did not hear the guy honking the horn. My father can no longer turn his head to look over his shoulder so he relies solely upon the mirrors. He is very smart but he is frail and his left hand shakes constantly. He is skin and bones & does not drive with any handicap driving aids but merely a regular car with a regular gas pedal and brake. He reacts so slowly these days, that the 2 of us joke together that he's like Tim Conway playing the slow old manon the Carol Burnett show. That's funny except when hes on the road, Although his elderly doctor thinks hes fine to drive because he only sees him in the morning when my dad is bright and chipper. My dad is almost 97. We both acknowledge that he's probably going to have to stop driving soon. This is difficult for him and difficult for us that love him, For I don't want to endanger him or anyone else on the road. Yesterday, The nurse in my dad's doctor's office told me to call the DMV the if I thought it was time For him to stop driving. This will pose an added burden on me on top of the already nonstop care giver demands, but we've looked at other options as well. Stay strong and do what's right for you and your family and those on the road. You in no way implied anything negative about those who were impaired but a deep concern about your parent. I wish you all the best. ( A sense of humor is your best support and way to stay sane.)

After reading all of these responses I just have to say, what is wrong with you , who say let someone else take their license ? I am sorry, but the person who has seen them drive, ridden with them, is constantly with them is the one to take action. In my case the neurologist that diagnosed my mother with dementia said, “you shouldn’t be driving” BUT he would not inform authorities/DMV. The DMV said “it’s not our place to fail them”. The safety class even passed her! My mother was 88. She thought she was “an excellent driver. Everyone said so.”
She had no peripheral vision, ran over curbs, didn’t see others running red lights, didn’t see stop signs. She would veer into other lanes and oncoming traffic, not yield to others, she couldn’t see, or she didn’t want to wait, or speed up to get there 1st. Older peoples reflexes deminish, reasoning is almost gone.
And you are worried about depression if they can’t drive?? What about the depression they have after they kill someone? Or themselves with your grandchildren in the car? What about the parents depression after he kills their child playing in their yard, Or in a parking lot? If you, or more than a couple people see what is happening, and they tell him what is going on and he still doesn’t give up “his keys” that right there tells you he is not of sound mind and can’t make good decisions.
Step up people. My gosh, if reasoning does not work, take action.

My dad is 93. His doctor revoked his driving privileges 1-1/2 years ago but he kept driving. We tried everything. I finally staged a 'mini intervention' to get his keys from him (he kept them in his pocket 24/7) and it was a disaster. Ended up with the police coming because he became so combative. They put handcuffs on him and took him to the hospital for 5 days until he calmed down. It was a total disaster. Then I found out he had extra keys! The DMV made the mistake of not taking his license from him when he got an ID card. The local sheriff and I had been in touch about all of this and he stopped by dad's one day and took the physical drivers license and he never drove again except to drive it in and out of the garage in his driveway.................. I would not wish this on anyone........... yes, it will kill him. Let the doctor's do it.

If you truly want to take this man's driving away from him, you will destroy him. And if you are bound and determined, and have truly legitimate issues, then let the doctors handle that. And here is something else - if you take the car away, you MUST assure him and be willing to do so that there will always be someone to take him wherever and whenever he wants to go. That is only fair and right. I live for my pussy cat and for my car and I will be 86. I cannot walk but do use a walker. I have an excellent driving record and go all over by myself. When people come to visit, they ask ME to drive because I am an excellent driver and l00% with it. I drive carefully and safely and everyone knows it. I would make sure I would be "gone" within a month if someone took my car (or my cat) away from me. It would be the end for me. Don't do this to him - especially if none of the authorities are objecting.

I am afraid that you are kicking against a loosing battle. To many authorities don't agree with you.

You have done all you can, you are not responsible for his actions. Let it go and keep your eyes open. If he is sharp as a tack he will know when it's time to stop driving.

I have an 89 year old friend that drives, even on the freeways. She knows that she has slower reflexes than she used to and she makes adjustments to accommodate them. I think all the texters are far more dangerous than our senior population. That proof is in the statistics.

If his DR., the DMV and the ALF dont have an issue that puts you in a tough position. Has he been in a wreck? Tickets? If not, your concerns are valid but if he can still manage AND he is sharp as a tack, you really don't have many options other than disabling his car or "losing" his keys. Have you talked with him about this? That would be your best bet. Just be honest with him and voice your concerns without making demands. See how he reacts. If he is open to it, great! If not.......let him drive until you can find a doctor that sees your point of view and will help you revoke his license. In Florida, doctors do assist with a letter and the DMV will revoke their license. Good luck.

Well I hope he doesn’t have an accident or kill someone because you will all be ruined
cant you take him to be tested and if he fails they will not renew license. The man should not be in the road

And by the way, if your father still has a fully functioning mind, telling him about repairs taking long, or other excuses to have the car MIA, it will not work.

Good luck. My father gave up driving willingly. My mother was the flip side of the coin. She did ok if someone told her directions, minute by minute. But when she was on her own, there was speeding, running red lights, driving over curbs, crossing into the other lanes, and into oncoming traffic. The doctor who said she had dementia told her she should THINK about giving up driving. The DMV clerk walked her thru the eye test, telling her where the “bleeps” on the screen were!! When I questioned “why on earth would you pass her if she couldn’t see well enough to pass on her own”. He told me “We are not here to fail them.” She was 88 at the time. After several close calls I took her keys. It was ugly. She threatened me, told me she was going to call a key Smith to come out to rekey the car. Also said she would call someone to come out to fix it if I disabled it. By this time my father passed away and I moved in with her so she wouldn’t have to leave her home. I didn’t want her causing an accident and them coming back on me saying with her medical problems I should have stopped her. I didn’t want to feel responsible for an accident that may take a child’s life. Long story short. She will be 94 in a couple months and I STILL hear on a regular basis that she was a good driver and I had no right to make her stop.
It came down to, I couldn’t live with myself if there was a fatality because I let her talk me out of it. Some may think it was a selfish decision on my part, but the risk was too great.
And by the way, she is, and never has been, one to stay home. I run her, until recently due to medical problems, everywhere. I have taken her on several vacations. Grocery shopping, card club, visiting friends, and she wants to go out to eat at least once a week for lunch.
My advice to you. Do what YOU think is the right thing to do. If you spend time with him, and you feel he is a danger on the road, take the keys. The Doctor will not help. Nor the DMV, safety classes, 😂 (she didn’t need to go because everyone told her she was a good driver). I put her thru a driving course, and it was step by step driving around the block in a quiet neighborhood, and he passed her🤬
Their hearing, reflexes, quick decisions, peripheral vision greatly diminishes with age. Do what YOU think is best and if anyone questions you as to “how could you do this to him”, YOU know best and you made a decision to keep him safe. I wish you luck and peace, with your decision.

Here do you live? No eye test for 93 year old is very dangerous. Talk to doctor about dad he can write yo DMV. Or take car for service and don't bring it back. Or wait till he's in an accident. Or. There's lots a ways to do it. But you must do something. But as long as he has access to car and keys, he will drive. (Leaving car but "losing" the keys isn't a good idea. He will find keys and continue driving.)
Of course he'll be mad but as a good child its time to step up. It's hard to change rolls from child to decision maker for parents. But it must be done. You can do it.

Hi not sure if you feel like you have time, but I made a deal with my father that he would stop driving at a certain age (for him it was 95). A few months before his birthday his car insurance was due to be renewed, and so I asked him if he really wanted to lay out the money when he didn't drive all that much anymore. That seemed to make sense to him and he sold his car and hasn't driven since. He's 98 now. I thought giving up driving was going to be a big fight, but it turned out to be really easy. I made it about money and not losing his freedom.

Disable the auto by removing a key element.

I had the same problem with my mom. For many years, she owned a car and drove to the supermarket on her own. A few years ago, we realized he eyesight was getting worse and even though the MV bureau issued her a new license, they never examined her eyes. My husband and I felt that it was time she stop driving but she wouldn't hear of it. I understood why, it took away her freedom. Since her car was on lease, when the time was nearing to renew it, we had her go to a good eye doctor. He gave her the bad news that her eyesight was not good enough to continue driving. We told her that he reported this to the MV bureau (even though he didn't). She, of course, complained but when the lease on the car was finished, we just turned the car in. I take her to the market now and her doctor's appt's. Small price to pay for her safety and the safety of others.

I guess a lot of young people can't understand that Uber and Lyft are foreign words and concepts to a lot of older people. For you it is an easy common solution. For a lot of older people it doesn't even compute. My mother had never even taken a taxi, let alone Uber or Lyft. My husband hasn't either. Don't you have to have a smart phone to call Uber or Lyft? I can do it, but my husband has problems with his first generation flip phone. Personally, I know I can't drive forever, and I have plans. If something happens to me, my husband will be dependent on nieces to take him around. I pray he will go first, because his niece is already talking about the fact that she knows of some "inexpensive" places to put him while she takes his house. Needless to say, we aren't even talking now.

As for Dial-A-Ride and Senior Buses, you sometimes have to sit for an hour or more while you wait for them. I see handicapped people at my gym waiting and waiting for an hour or more for their transportation. The same at the grocery store.

I can so relate. My dad however can walk fine and does a slew of other things an ageist society would not expect. Just yesterday a neighbor sent a message to me via Next Door and said "do you know your dad is outside mowing the lawn? I think it's too hot." And I wrote back that no, I didn't, and I agreed, but YOU stop him. He's made it to 102 and this is how...by being active and engaged. My dad can't hear. But many far younger are deaf and able to drive. He also deliberately calculated having two cataract surgeries prior to his license renewal in order to be sure to pass. They were so minimal the tech wasn't sure the MD would even go ahead. But yeah, that would be my dad's reaction...to become depressed if he were grounded. I can't control him. I've accepted that. I understand safety is a concern. In fact, my dad had a stinker of a Chevy and he got a new car the end of last November. I think the only thing you might be able to do...unless harsh and wanting to risk the depression...and unless there is a significant safety risk...is to work on accepting the situation for now. I would though make a nice little list of all available resources from senior transportation to private drivers and leave it for him. Clearly his self-esteem and independence is at stake. So long as he is in control and make the decision to let someone else drive, it has a better chance of success. Maybe he doesn't want to bother you? If he has a resource list, he won't have to...

Look at previous 'driving' topics on this site as there are lots of ideas and suggestions from others' questions in this regard. And:
* Take a part out of the car so it doesn't work.
* Get MD to be 'the bad guy' and get an official document / letter that is sent to DMV and ALF where Dad resides. WRITE to the CEO of his MD practice or report this MD. Would the medical facility/MD/CEO prefer that others get killed crossing the street?
- Write a letter to your local paper mentioning the name(s) of the MD who say this.
- Of course he'll get DEPRESSED. This is what happens as cognitive and health declines and a person loses their independent. What is wrong with this MD???
- GET ANOTHER MD.
- Contact Michael Finney (in San Francisco Area, KGO radio and TV) and ask them to intervene. You might also have a consumer advocate where you live who is a public personality (TV show or radio).
* Read Teepa Snow's website and a specific webinar about this issue. You want to make another the 'bad guy' and support how your dad feels about the situation. You don't want to be the target of doing something like this to him.
* If your dad might be inclined to call the police (as some do), you notify them and let them know of the situation so they can be on alert.
* Notify your Dad's insurance company and let them know how you feel. If they are on alert and esp with an official letter sent to them - if they take away Dad's insurance, you are not the bad guy. If they don't, the insurance company might be liable if your dad injures - or kills - someone while driving. I don't know, but if I were an insurance company, I would not want to be in this position.
* Sounds like first step is getting an MD's official notification. I'd go over your MD's head and report him. If s/he works alone, I would contact the Medical Board.
YOU are trying to take responsibility before something awful might happen. Others needs to do the same. Gena.

Working in the medical field I clearly remember a doctor explaining to a patient that the doctor was sure the patient did not want to hurt anyone or be remembered for doing so. My mother was also in her 90's and sharp as a tack..driving like a younger adult in heavy traffic..fortunetly she only drove short distances.,..ride with him..he may do just fine ..reflexes ?eye sight?hearing?all are fatally important...How far is he driving?are kids present?allot of activity?you could also ask the local police to just "accidently "get behind him and evaluate him..at least you will have peace of mind this way...good luck

"Borrow" his car. Several family or close friends "all of a sudden need to borrow his car". A kind soul, he will comply IF he has access to a ride whenever, wherever to where he wants to go (Think family rides, Uber, Lyft, etc. just to get started and then make it) ....Helps also with socialization and healthy lifestyle of activities. The good news is companionship, fun, interesting visits occur daily or weekly as he wishes. Did this when my Mother's time came, and everyone pitched in, but no concerns of accident or death in auto he is driving. Makes him feel good about himself "loaning a vehicle he has" voluntarily and just (somehow saves him money, easier, deliveries he needs - meds, dinner delivery, etc.)