They don’t want me to have power of attorney and even though I have a letter from his doctor stating his diminished capability of making legal and financial decisions they refuse to accept the fact that I am making those decisions for him. Legally do I have to get their approval or can a decision be made in spite of it? I have tried to compromise but nothing I try to explain is accepted even after giving them hard evidence. I’m at my wits end and I am OK with them going off the deep end. According to his investment manager who has reviewed the document there are no limitations and backs me 100%. I just need to know what my legal obligations are if any relating to my siblings. Please help
While taking care of Mom, I found that keeping my siblings informed on developments directly involving her care was a good thing. This is not always true for every family. However, it was after Mother passed that I got flack from the brothers (actually only the youngest one). Once Mother passed I also had legal responsibility to take care of the "trust/estate".
What happened is not as important as the fact that "legally" you do not owe them explanations, information, etc. The DPOA gives you all the power. Just "inform" them to what you see important on your fathers welfare. ie., health, living arrangements, nothing else is appropriate under a DPOA.'
Good luck, as this is not easy. Remember at all times to take care of yourself in this process. As this is a process. Keep good records of everything you do, and share what you feel they need to know. Do not take personally anything else.
I would speak to the lawyer who drew up these documents. If you didn’t have a lawyer, I would speak to one now to clarify what you have.
Any hospital, nursing home, senior center can advise you on this, but I would settle it by speaking to a lawyer.
I would speak to the lawyer who drew up these documents. If you didn’t have a lawyer, I would speak to one now to clarify what you have.
Any hospital, nursing home, senior center can advise you on this, but I would settle it with a lawyer.
I dealt with a situation in my family as enduring POA for both my parents. A grand daughter who hadn't been on the scene for decades suddenly showed up a couple of years ago, as my mother was dying. One of her cousins said to me "why has she suddenly turned up? poking her nose in, why now?" Good question huh. She was quite threatening toward me, stating, among other things, that she had "concerns about transparency". My approach in dealing with her was to ask her if my father, her grandfather, had EVER discussed his financial dealings/decisions/situation with her in the past. Well, no. He is a very private man who did not discuss his finances with ANY family members - just his bank manager, accountant and his lawyer. So that is what I am doing too, on HIS behalf. Not HERS. That seemed to shut her up.
it sounds like you’ve figured out that you don’t owe your siblings squat but I do wonder how your dad is holding up under all that noise from the siblings that sounds bordering on abuse?!
it may or may not be good for him to be near them.
I do hope things settle down for his sake as well as yours.
Financial information is generally treated in confidence. You can't go blabbing every detail to someone only because it would be nice or courteous to make him or her feel included.
As Durable Power of Attorney (DPOA), your only LEGAL obligation is to act ON BEHALF OF your father with HIS best interests at heart.
A MEDICAL DPOA, (assigned when the person is of sound mind), states HIS wishes and instructions as to his ongoing medical care, ie, make heroic efforts to continue his life or do not resuscitate (DNR), etc. YOU may not have any real DECISIONS to make here, as HIS instructions for his care are normally all spelled out on the document.
A FINANCIAL DPOA is a completely separate assignment (also assigned when the person is of sound mind). This means you must RESPONSIBLY use HIS assets for HIS care and expenses related to his care. For example, pay HIS mortgage/rent and utilities from HIS assets. You can RESPONSIBLY sell his assets, (including vehicles and homes), as needed, to pay his for his ongoing care and expenses, etc.
Upon his death, ALL POAs and DPOAs IMMEDIATELY expire.
If there is a will, once the will is filed with the court, (and after a period of time for objections), the court will send out a Letters Testamentary to the Executor/Personal Representative mentioned in the will who then take over the administration of the estate.
Depending on the value of the estate, sometimes all decisions are court supervised, sometimes not (Note: Siblings can typically sign off to waive court appointed supervision in order to save court costs).
Any JOINT assets held, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, certificates of deposit (CD's), etc. IMMEDIATELY go to the joint account holder and are NOT part of the estate. Consider that money gone.
Life insurance claims can be redeemed ONLY by the named beneficiaries (with a certified copy of the death certificate). These funds are NOT part of the estate.
ALL accounts in HIS NAME ONLY will be FROZEN upon his death. Only with a death certificate and court appointed letters testamentary (which can take months to receive), can the Executor then transact any estate business, such as closing bank accounts in his name only, cancelling utilities, opening an ESTATE checking account, etc.
Pay bills with estate funds ONLY!! You do NOT, and SHOULD not, pay ANY bills with your personal money. Estste bills, including mortgages, utilities, e.t.c., WILL go unpaid, sometimes for MONTHS that is COMPLETELY normal with estates. Creditors know and are used to this.
If there is NO will, then ANY assets not held JOINTLY must go through Probate Court for ALL the decisions to be made.
In Missouri, even WITH a will, an estate goes through Probate Court and my narcissistic siblings did whatever they could to make the process more difficult, but I just did MY job as DPOA (Med & Fin) and eventual Executor to the estate. I have NO regrets! Though, I DO have less siblings in my life now, and I'm COMPLETELY okay with that!!! I found out that they are not the kind of people I choose to have in my life anyway. Good riddance. Blood is NOT always thicker than water.
You do what's right for your father. FORGET the siblings if they are just trying to cause you problems. You can't always please everyone, so do what's best for your FATHER, what HE would have done if HE were able to. Your siblings are likely just jealous and possibly greedy.
Best of luck to you in the coming years.
Keep asking questions here, because there's ALWAYS someone on here that has been through EXACTLY the situation you're finding yourself in at the time. <3
The first is that the POA is doing all the work with the best of intentions, the siblings refuse to help, they want to avoid any sort of paid care that will diminish their own inheritance, and that they have been and continue to be very unpleasant in a dysfunctional family.
The second scenario is that the POA is acting as a mini-tyrant totally in charge of the parents, providing no information to siblings, making decisions that don’t seem in the interests of the parents, and causing real worries about financial misappropriation.
It’s not possible for us to know which scenario is correct, or whether there are bits of both going on. For the short and long term sake of every body involved, irrespective of ‘rights’, it would be far better if you could calm down and work out what you can share and explain. Yes you have the POA, but your siblings are also your father’s children and are just as likely to care about what is happening to him. You might feel the same as them if your father had happened to make one of them his POA instead of you, for example if you were on the other side of the country when the document was prepared.
The benefits of co-operation to you are less likelihood of legal problems, certainly less likelihood that litigation would go against you, and better relations long term within the family. Think about it.
Your dad made you POA not them - however just a word to the wise make a paper trail a mile wide & do not use anything but a paper statement to back up your documentation because you will pay big $$$ to get back copies so it is best to get the ones from any transactions in original print not Xerox/printer
If they still object have the lawyer send them a politely worded letter that basically says you are in charge & they are to 'shut up' - you may have him/her include a bit about 'while you will appreciate input however once a decision is made then that's it & don't continue bothering you' & again in polite wording but with a stern overtone
It would seem your dad picked well as you seem to be the one with some heart & don't let them wear you down - good luck
You have full decision rights. If your siblings want to play nice, then you can tell them that you will consider their arguments, if they are nasty, tell them to play nice, you have the authority! Period.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/things-you-can-and-cant-do-with-poa-152673.htm
Question asked on avvo.com
(https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-a-poa-have-the-right-to-withhold-all-financia-741543.html):
"Does a POA have the right to withhold all financial information from the siblings
POA has all financial institution account balance and information sent to them and is refusing to share with other brothers and sisters."
Answers:
1.) A Power of Attorney has a fiduciary duty to the principal, not to the siblings. Thus, a POA is not obligated to share financial information with you and, arguably, if the POA did, he may be in violation of his duty of loyalty to his principal. If you feel that the POA is not acting in the best interest of the principal you may petition the court to review the conduct of the POA.
2.) The terms of the power of attorney itself may specify the level of disclosure of information, but Ohio also has a law that specifically permits certain interested persons (which include children of the principal) to request accountings from the agent. That information is different from "all financial information." The children have no more right to ask the agent for the parent's bank account and investment account balances than they would to ask the parent directly. However, the POA should not be secretive as far as use, expenditure, or transfer of the funds. If there are facts present that suggests the agent is abusing the authority granted under the POA, then you should retain counsel and pursue a court-ordered accounting if the agent refuses to provide one voluntarily. Also, this does not mean that the children are entitled to receive contemporaneous or monthly information. Please bear in mind that your parent continues to have a right to keep information regarding their financial situation secret and the children have no right to that information. (there is more on the web page.)
3.) My colleagues are both right. It is usually correct to be worried when one sibling keeps all the others in the dark about the affairs of an aging client, and lots of damage can be done with a power of attorney. Several years ago the School of Law and Government at Albany University revealed that 92% of Powers of Attorney are misused by the agent holding the power.
Despite that answer #3 (don't know how they came up with that high a percentage!), providing basic information to siblings if requested nicely should be fine (per the attorney who posted a response on this thread), however decision making and details are for the POA. Certainly if anyone has GOOD suggestions or GOOD questions about finances or care, then take them into consideration, but the actual decision making, medical and financial, are to be made by the appointee. Sharing basic information and being open to suggestions should be enough to qualm concerns of siblings, but many of us are aware that this is certainly not the case in many instances! If it were me, I would try once, generally twice, to share relevant information, but if they chose to ignore it and continue unreasonable demands, that's it. No more from me!
Do keep good records. There are those who will seek legal advice and try to wrest control from you. If you have good records, both medical and financial and anything else that might be relevant, they will likely not succeed. In reading more about legal fees in cases like this, it appears that the general rule is each side pays its own legal costs :-( There may be exceptions, so I would think if you have VERY good records, it can be shown that the case was frivolous, especially if you presented the basic records prior to the suit. It might even be enough to pass them from your attorney to theirs - if they can then "See the light", perhaps they would back off.
If anyone does sue for guardianship and wins, it will override any POA. So, you want to ensure there is no way for them to win!
I think this says what we kind of know about sharing with the sibs. "You don't have to. You can choose to. They can sue you if they suspect fraud. Good records are your friend."
I have no siblings. As much trouble as all this can be I can tell you I would be more than thrilled, if they caused trouble, to go to court, tell the court "Here are my meticulous records. Now,due to their meddling I no longer want this job. But I know THEM and you can see for yourself that they are trouble. I want to quit. So please appoint a guardianship, and lets see how they like, with all their greed, to see funds disappear at about 90.00 an hour minimum for the work". EEEEEEk I would be furious.
Dealing with siblings can be awful. I will say that POA and/or Trustee of Trust isn't a piece of cake either. It requires meticulous record keeping, no muddying of your name or monies with your loved one, careful accounting in case there are ever questions.
Do be certain before you invoke the DPOA that you want it. And if there are siblings you cannot trust you may want to get a court appointed guardian and let that money be paid out before something bad happens to Dad's money. See an Elder Law Attorney is my advice, to find out what your duties would be, and what you fears are.
Stop telling them what you're doing and hopefully they will stop getting ugly with you.
Now, that You are off the hook. Keeping relationships intact is hard to do. If you want input from the rest of the family - ask for suggestions. Tell them you will keep their "suggestions" in mind while making decisions. Keep everybody in the loop on what is going on - I send monthly letters to all my family. If they are concerned about the finances, send a balance sheet that shows what comes in and where it goes. Your loved one chose you because he/she trusts you to have his/her best interests at heart.
I no longer speak with 4 siblings. Yet being executrix if you also hold that position becomes even more challenging. It is not a great place to be.
I agree with the others. Your parent chose you. I also agree keep great records. And get a bonding and release form filed. I did have to get some funds back for ira taxes. Don’t think that was easy.
I also agree wholeheartedly, there wasn’t any financial contributions over the past 24 years to their home or lives. My parents only paid minimal utility bills. $300. A month. My personal income paid the rest upkeep, plus rental, tenant turnover. Now they want to eat the pie. The property where they lived was owned jointly with myself only. They come out of the woodwork with opinion and criticism.
Poa ends when the person passes. That’s when things really hit the fan. Had to clean out the apartment, inventory and present all possessions . Lots of visits to the post office while nasty emails were hurled my way.
Even an easy estate as this was, none of this is easy. Take the executor fee. My mother told me to. I wasn’t going to. But it is alot of work!!
I took half. It was minimal.
For me it was a gang up of bullies. My mother always said I think your going to have a problem. They’ve held this resentment in for a long time. It is family dysfunction stuff.
All this is to say. I would keep it all business. Keep meticulous records. Submit the documentation because it’s not going to get easier. Communicate on paper. You need to take care of yourself. Prepare yourself , these lifelong relationships are over. Remember it’s their stuff they are unhappy with.
If you are/were your parents go to person, you have spent countless hours being there for them. Cherish those memories.
Just now am I starting to be able to deal with my own grief and won’t be truly free till taxes are filed next year and I can close the account out.
It is what it is. This will minimize your time being wasted if you communicate and document.
And if you are the executor be prepared. You will already have started the ground work.
Good luck. Peace.
My older half brother had POA on my mother. He also had his name on her checking account. He developed dementia and died a year before my mother from COPD. He was not a very good financial person and one year he cashed all the investments and gave her a horrible tax consequence. His wife was in denial and said "he will be ok if he is with me". However she would push me into the room of the nursing home with him. I had no legal power so I would beg the managers to not make any decisions until they talked to me. My step brother even denied signing the papers to put her in the nursing home.
It got so bad that my sister in Florida and I mounted a takeover where we took her into her lawyer where she signed to take him off, and put us on. I was actually surprised that she signed because she was so close to him, but even she knew he had dementia. The sister-in-law gave me all the bank statements and I spent a week untangling them. They had siphoned off quite a bit of money, but I decided I wasn't in the bill collecting business.
Going forward I had my sister in Florida (retired nurse) take her in, and sold her house (which my mother no longer recognized). After that everybody was just happy that somebody was handling it. It's a lot of work. It is unlikely that your siblings would want the responsibility for it.
My mother died 3 years ago (age 97). Mistakes are easy to make (there is still some money stuck in a checking account that I am waiting to go to unclaimed funds). Please be careful and don't do anything without consulting a lawyer.
If your father has an investing manager, there can be a churning problem where the manager is constantly replacing stocks to earn himself commissions. That happened to my husband's insurance which was abbreviated (paying for itself). He lost all his life insurance because of that. .
My sister lost her entire nursing pension because she invested it in a special fund that was taken over by the investing manager. He moved it and took it all out and spent it on himself (over $120,000).
Don't forget about the 70 1/2 rule for taking out a percentage of 401K IRA invested money. The penalty of not taking it out is 50%. I looked on the internet and fold a table by a lawyer that said the first year it was 27% that had to come out. Turned out that was false. I found a IRA table where it was much, much less. 50% is a huge penalty!.
Your siblings know of these scams and mistakes and are worried. Please be careful and conservative.
When opposition to DPOA, either medical or financial arises, guardianship is the appropriate course of action. I say this because it removes the drama of communication with siblings. They will need to then submit their questions to the court of jurisdiction. The court may answer directly, using required annual accounting you have submitted to the court. They have to get a lawyer, spend their money, and pursue their inquiry indirectly...but there is complete transparency. It may cost the estate money to respond, but it puts an end to nonsense.
A guardian has full authority to act as if they were the person who is under guardianship. This covers most choices a person would make for themselves, except voting rights.
Usually the greatest opposition comes in larger estates or where family disagrees on end of life measures. In our case, my husband’s mother was clearly already incompetent to exercise any will or appointment of a DPOA, as her Alzheimers had progressed too far. So rather than face competency challenges later, my husband went straight for guardianship, and I became co-guardian in his absence/if he was unavailable.
That is where the shit hit the fan with the family. I was grudgingly accepted as the older brother’s wife...but alternate guardian? Oh hell no!!! So, I bowed out and invited them to do it ALL. As in caregiving and everything, if something happened to my husband. I told all of them...hey, if something happens to him, you get to clean this up. Not me. I will pack my stuff and move on, and if it means divorcing my husband to get away from you people and your drama, I am prepared to do that too. I at that point also financially seperated all my money and income from my husbands. This was to ensure I would never be accused of taking anything from the estate or his mother. In fact we almost divorced over the issue of her family and her violent behavior in her home. We separated for 6 months. I had to wait out a phase of her possessiveness of her own home until in her mind, I, as her eldest’s daughter in law, was viewed as a friend, not an intruder in her home...a helper, not a person taking over her home.
Yes, changes had to come to her home for sanitary and structural reasons for her to stay in her home at all. I tried to remain within her decorating style, but changes had to be made for her sake and ours. It worked out in the end...but it could cost you more than money and relationships with siblings. It can cost you your own savings, retirement, friends, and marriage, too. Caregiving can compromise you health and lead to an early death for those caregivers.
Its easy for the family members not directly caregiving to arm chair quarterback the situation...they have no idea what the personal time and personal price the caregiver will pay.
My advice is keep records and follow your heart. You do not have to legally share anything with anyone else. Your parents have trusted you to make the right decisions for them and when they are gone you can rest easy having done so.
Unfortunately we had set it up as a life estate, and it would have been best to keep it until she passed away, but the condo fees and RE taxes were 14k/year! The heating system died and the windows started blowing seals, which sucked down more money (and my time.) The way a life estate is set up, we all got a "share" based on mom's remaining life expectancy. Thankfully we all agreed to put in back into the trust for her benefit (needs the $ for the MC place!) We did let the trust pay the cap gains for us all (reduced a lot by various deductions.)
Keeping good records covers your butt for those nasty family members who come out of the woodwork with all kinds of accusations! For the most part, I will rely on the paperwork from the bank and trust fund. 99% of SS/pension/trust money pays her "rent" at the MC facility, 1% or less is for Rx meds, OTC needs, extra services needed, transportation, hair care, etc. They don't like it, too bad! I am grateful that neither says anything... at least for now...
When my SIL attempted to compare how her brother handled her parents and later their estates (forwarding monthly statements on their investment portfolio from the accountant to siblings while her parents were still alive) I pointed out that each family may approach this differently but the law is on my side and since this pertains our parents any further conversations to be had will be had with my brothers and not their wives or children.