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An elder attorney wants $275.00 for a consultation fee. My mom went into a nursing home with assets. I was told she can have a house, car and $999.00 in the bank. What do I do wiht her money?
Simple answer is use the money to pay the nursing home until it is gone, then she will qualify for Medicaid. But if you are trying to not spend the money, then you will need to talk to the elder care attorney.
You can use it for most anything but not gifting it to others. I went to an elder lawyer for this and used the money for home improvements such as fencing in the yard (so husband couldn't roam), new roof, air conditioning, home help, respite, could have even bought a new car; of course all of this has been done before NH placement.
I went to an elder lawyer which cost me a lot of money. I had to spend down also. I paid off credit cards and had to pay as private payer for the facility my husband was in because he insurance days ran out. I also put extra Into my mortgage. I was also told I could prepay his funeral.
If Mom lives here with me, but will probably have to go into a nursing home, soon. She is 92 in March. Does anyone know if I can spend her money to adapt the house for her use, like a ramp, a new door with a dead bolt, things like that? Just asking. I'm not paying an attorney if I can get away with it. I went to a Medicaid seminar lead by an attorney and when I asked too many questions I could tell he was irritated because he wants you to pay big bucks to talk to him. I've learned pretty much everything I need to know except for improvements to MY house where she has lived for the last year. Thanks if anyone knows.
First, as hard as it is to do....pay for her funeral now. That will spend some of it down. Is your Mom going to be staying in the nursing home or will she be coming home to live with you or someone in the family? My MIL lives with us, she is in the last stages of Alzheimers. She has Medicaid but she had a lot of money she had to spend down before she would become eligible. Her funeral is all paid for and some improvements were made to the home so that we could get her around (she is not mobile and needs a wheelchair). She now has Medicaid but she still makes more than the $880.00 a month that the wonderful government thinks she should be able to live on, so we have to send the County $509.00 a month or spend it on "medical" bills/supplies. She takes no medication so we only have her Depends, Poise Pads, rubber gloves, things like that, that we spend it on. So, we keep the receipts and each month, we send the county a check for the amount that they require MINUS the amount we have spent on supplies. We have aides that come in to help us out daily that is covered by a program that she is in (Consumer Directed) that is paid for by her Medicaid so we figure spending the $500 each month is worth is as we get 76 hours a week help with her care. We couldn't ask for more and as painful as it is to send in that money each month, we know that we couldn't have this program if we had to pay the whole thing out of our pockets. The best part though is that because my boyfriend and I are not married, I am one of the aides so that money comes back to the house each month anyways.
If anyone would like some help/infor ... please let me know. We have been through hell and back and jumped through a lot of hoops to get this but it is so worth it in the end. We love Mom and will never let her go back into the nursing home (she spent 4 months there with a broken (replaced) hip). She will be with us, in HER home, till her last breath.
Your question was what you needed to know about Medicaid spend down. I will give you a prospective as an Elder Law attorney. Medicaid is a federal program administered by the states. The laws of each state differ to some extent. The federal law allows some "wiggle room" in applying the regulations. In addition to differences in the law, there are differences in practical applications of the law. One state may allow $8,000. to be set aside for funeral expenses into an irrevocable funeral trust, another state may allow a greater amount, but insist that it be pre-paid to a funeral director. Elder law is not the most lucrative area of law, and you must be able to chat with seniors and visit nursing homes. However, it is satisfying work. Also, as a group, elder lawyers communicate with each other, and help each other on a daily basis. Find someone who is a member of NAELA, the National Academy of Elder Lawyers, because that is where the networking takes place. Money you pay to an elder lawyer is a qualified spend down. That is, you either pay the lawyer or you pay the nursing home. All of the above ideas posted by others are good. You might make home improvements, purchase a wheelchair accessible van to make trips to family events, and a host of other ideas. But, I only know the laws of my state, Pennsylvania. You should consult with an attorney in your state. One post above mentions the home waiver program where someone can receive Medicaid services at home. Although the program is part of the federal law, some states use it more than others. In some states it is almost impossible to get into the waiver program, even though it makes much for sense to allow the senior to be home. As for the family members getting paid for care, the states also differ on that issue. In addition to application of the law, an elder lawyer is usually able to help fill out the Medicaid Application. You may have to go back five years in financial records. I was a former accountant and I can deal with shoe boxes full of financial information and turn it into accounting statements using QuickBooks. If there is a questionable payment, I can speak to the case worker about it, and ask for a hearing if it is contested. When you hire an attorney, as with any service person, you pay for knowledge of the laws and for experience.
You can also learn about it on your own. It is your choice. I am the same way. For some items I call the plumber (putting in a new garbage disposal) and some items I do myself (replacing small piece of drain pipe). You decide what you want to do, and what you want someone else to do.
There is a lot of info on this site and in the web in general. Decide if you are going to keep the house, particularly if nobody is living in it. You would not be able to profit from rent and would have to pay taxes and upkeep from her $, sounds like a waste, but is an emotional decision. If you keep the house, some of the $ will be spent there. Definitely prepay funeral. The intent of the look back is clear, you can inform yourself, if her money is substantial, I would pay the $275 for professional advice.
I am in need of your experience and advice. My aunt ( like a mother to me), fell and broke her hip, was in rehab for sox weeks, is a huge fall risk and poor memory. Is now in a nh but wants out and it's killing me having her in there. I am going through the Medicaid app. Process now and it's hard to know how to spend down beyond the funeral etc, meds, clothes... I have questions about spending down and about how or if it's possible to get her home, with the amount of sevices you describe...I didn't think she could get home because I thought she would only get a couple of hours maybe a day or less even... 70 plus hours a week could possibly get her home...help! I am desperate for information as I feel like I am pulling her life out from underneath her. I just don't know what to do..everyone seems to think the nh is the only answer but it just doesn't feel right. I have a very small house and two young boys so it's not a realistic option to bring her to my house..plus we are rarely home...but with 79 hours of help per week...we may be able to swing it... Any help, info. Would be sooooo appreciated. Thank you!
There are many variables, such as how much money your mother still has, whether there is any real estate, and what state you live in! A good place to start, to both review the rules of Medicaid eligibility as well as all of the current planning techniques, would be the book "How to Protect Your Family's Assets from Devastating Nursing Home Costs: Medicaid Secrets." (www.MedicaidSecrets.com) Since I wrote this book 8 years ago, it has helped thousands of people understand the complex Medicaid rules. If you decide to read it (available in some libraries, too), be sure to post any questions on this site and I will try to answer them. Thanks and good luck!
Hello. My mother is currently in a long term care facility and on MediCal. She also has Medicare. She used to have private insurance but they would not pay for her stay in the nursing home. I cared for my mother before that at my home but her condition now has greatly deteriorated and she needs 24/7 assistance. She has a share of cost that is made up of almost the entire amount of her social security benefits and pension. After paying the SOC, she is left with $26 for personal expenses. My mother has no other assests ( she did not prepare for this stage in life), but still has 2 small insurance policies that are still being paid for which she was planning on using for her burial expenses. I am paying for her insurance policies and whatever else expenses she has over the $26 dollars she has each month. Is there any way I can get her share of cost lowered in order to help pay for her expenses and the medical/doctors bills I'm still helping her to pay off? She is 80 and legally blind. I would greatly appreciate any advice and help.
Sorry, but the cost of a "good" eldercare lawyer is really worth it! They know the legal "ins and outs" and can save you MUCH heartache later. Run--don't walk!
cindyy and atlooseends - You can get a lot of help and advice at your local AAA. Google Area Agency on Aging with the name of her city or town and state. There is so much to learn, and until you get the basics, it is super confusing. This is a brand new problem for you, but it is not a new problem to the experts.
Diabella, educate yourself before deciding if you need a lawyer or not. If you can go into the meeting with a general understanding, he can earn his money by answering the hard questions.
I went to an elder care lawyer for a free consultation which was very helpful. If my husband has to go into a NH I then get the lawyer's help which will cost almost $10.000. Is this amount usual? I know there is alot of work involved and they know how to get it all done sooner and save me losing more money so it sounds worth it if one has assets over $250,00 and doesn't want to lose it all to the government.
Regarding lawyer fees for Medicaid planning: Most seem to charge a flat fee, which can range from $5,000 to $10,000 or more (obviously it costs more to do planning for a married couple than a single/widowed/divorced person alone). Some will just charge by the hour. So it varies. Thus, it's important to get a good estimate of the fees up front, so you know what you're dealing with. Also, does the quoted fee include any documents, such as a trust, or is that extra? If extra, how much will THAT cost? Unfortunately, in many cases it really is quite complicated and worth the high fees it will take to come up a good plan. In other cases, it may be possible to whittle down the extra funds with just a few simple planning devices and minimal legal fees. That's why I always suggest arming yourself with good information and advice BEFORE visiting an attorney's office, so you'll be able to sense if they know what they are talking about and you won't feel like you're completely in the dark about the subject at hand. (And why I wrote my book!)
Concerning the spend down for Medicaid, does the funeral need to be pre-paid in a trust agreement with the funeral home or does every aspect of the funeral need to be planned including choosing the casket etc. and be paid .
I am confused about the difference between pre-need contracts and pre-paid funerals when applying for Medicaid in N.C. I have $10,000 in an account that needs to be used for my mother's final expenses. What is the best way to set this up in order to qualify for Medicaid?
I looked it up on elderlawanswers. It needs to be an irrevocable contract. All the money will be used for the funeral and related expenses, including flowers, for example. Any left-over $ goes to the state. The funeral home is probably very familiar with the process, and can advise you. Hope this helps.
The question about where to place funeral funds differs in each state. Elder Law Answers is a great resource, and I am one of the attorneys who are a member of Elder Law Answers and who help build the site. In my state, Pennsylvania, there are a few banks that will set up irrevocable trusts for free. In other states, especially with regard to recent changes in the federal regulations too complicated to discuss here, the funds must be left with a funeral director. The issue about leaving with a funeral director is that funeral homes are bought and sold, and the new owner of the funeral home might be very different from the original owners. I might suggest another resource, the Funeral Consumer's Alliance. Find the group for your state and ask about pre-paid contracts in your state.
Much more detail about your moms assets and financial situation would be needed before anyone can advise you what to do with the money and how to spend down within Medicaid's rules. Be sure you plan accurately and wisely. Any errors can cause Medicaid to deny your claim, impose a penalty period–setting back your plans for you and your family, and cost you money. This is the reason it is well worth it to meed/consult with an elder care attorney that has experience in Medicaid Planning. (The $275 fee is reasonable.) Medicaid has a five year look back period so you must plan accordingly. Don't be misguided as many are in thinking you can simply start gifting now and expect it to be exempt.
oh these law speaking experts. * sigh * you could buy a lifesized replica of the egyptian sphynxe made entirely of cocaine if you want. i dont care for cocaine but you get my drift. use a little imagination.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If anyone would like some help/infor ... please let me know. We have been through hell and back and jumped through a lot of hoops to get this but it is so worth it in the end. We love Mom and will never let her go back into the nursing home (she spent 4 months there with a broken (replaced) hip). She will be with us, in HER home, till her last breath.
Medicaid is a federal program administered by the states. The laws of each state differ to some extent. The federal law allows some "wiggle room" in applying the regulations. In addition to differences in the law, there are differences in practical applications of the law. One state may allow $8,000. to be set aside for funeral expenses into an irrevocable funeral trust, another state may allow a greater amount, but insist that it be pre-paid to a funeral director.
Elder law is not the most lucrative area of law, and you must be able to chat with seniors and visit nursing homes. However, it is satisfying work. Also, as a group, elder lawyers communicate with each other, and help each other on a daily basis. Find someone who is a member of NAELA, the National Academy of Elder Lawyers, because that is where the networking takes place.
Money you pay to an elder lawyer is a qualified spend down. That is, you either pay the lawyer or you pay the nursing home. All of the above ideas posted by others are good. You might make home improvements, purchase a wheelchair accessible van to make trips to family events, and a host of other ideas. But, I only know the laws of my state, Pennsylvania. You should consult with an attorney in your state.
One post above mentions the home waiver program where someone can receive Medicaid services at home. Although the program is part of the federal law, some states use it more than others. In some states it is almost impossible to get into the waiver program, even though it makes much for sense to allow the senior to be home. As for the family members getting paid for care, the states also differ on that issue.
In addition to application of the law, an elder lawyer is usually able to help fill out the Medicaid Application. You may have to go back five years in financial records. I was a former accountant and I can deal with shoe boxes full of financial information and turn it into accounting statements using QuickBooks. If there is a questionable payment, I can speak to the case worker about it, and ask for a hearing if it is contested. When you hire an attorney, as with any service person, you pay for knowledge of the laws and for experience.
You can also learn about it on your own. It is your choice. I am the same way. For some items I call the plumber (putting in a new garbage disposal) and some items I do myself (replacing small piece of drain pipe). You decide what you want to do, and what you want someone else to do.
Decide if you are going to keep the house, particularly if nobody is living in it. You would not be able to profit from rent and would have to pay taxes and upkeep from her $, sounds like a waste, but is an emotional decision.
If you keep the house, some of the $ will be spent there.
Definitely prepay funeral.
The intent of the look back is clear, you can inform yourself, if her money is substantial, I would pay the $275 for professional advice.
I am in need of your experience and advice. My aunt ( like a mother to me), fell and broke her hip, was in rehab for sox weeks, is a huge fall risk and poor memory. Is now in a nh but wants out and it's killing me having her in there. I am going through the Medicaid app. Process now and it's hard to know how to spend down beyond the funeral etc, meds, clothes... I have questions about spending down and about how or if it's possible to get her home, with the amount of sevices you describe...I didn't think she could get home because I thought she would only get a couple of hours maybe a day or less even... 70 plus hours a week could possibly get her home...help! I am desperate for information as I feel like I am pulling her life out from underneath her. I just don't know what to do..everyone seems to think the nh is the only answer but it just doesn't feel right. I have a very small house and two young boys so it's not a realistic option to bring her to my house..plus we are rarely home...but with 79 hours of help per week...we may be able to swing it... Any help, info. Would be sooooo appreciated. Thank you!
Cindy
Since I wrote this book 8 years ago, it has helped thousands of people understand the complex Medicaid rules.
If you decide to read it (available in some libraries, too), be sure to post any questions on this site and I will try to answer them. Thanks and good luck!
Google Area Agency on Aging with the name of her city or town and state. There is so much to learn, and until you get the basics, it is super confusing. This is a brand new problem for you, but it is not a new problem to the experts.
Diabella, educate yourself before deciding if you need a lawyer or not. If you can go into the meeting with a general understanding, he can earn his money by answering the hard questions.
I am going to buy your book today! It looks great.
Cindy
Cindy
Unfortunately, in many cases it really is quite complicated and worth the high fees it will take to come up a good plan. In other cases, it may be possible to whittle down the extra funds with just a few simple planning devices and minimal legal fees.
That's why I always suggest arming yourself with good information and advice BEFORE visiting an attorney's office, so you'll be able to sense if they know what they are talking about and you won't feel like you're completely in the dark about the subject at hand. (And why I wrote my book!)
I am confused about the difference between pre-need contracts and pre-paid funerals when applying for Medicaid in N.C. I have $10,000 in an account that needs to be used for my mother's final expenses. What is the best way to set this up in order to qualify for Medicaid?
I might suggest another resource, the Funeral Consumer's Alliance. Find the group for your state and ask about pre-paid contracts in your state.
Regards,
Brian
you could buy a lifesized replica of the egyptian sphynxe made entirely of cocaine if you want. i dont care for cocaine but you get my drift. use a little imagination.