My folks are 74. Since I was young, my mom has had an undiagnosed mental illness. She’s getting worse. My dad is in denial. Thoughts?

I would walk away, let your father deal with her. No one has the right to verbally abuse anyone else. If you father does not have a backbone that is on him.

No where is it written that you or anyone else HAS to continue to support this bad behavior. And certainly your son should not be exposed to this toxic behavior.

Time to stand up and be counted, walk away from these bullies.

You cannot resolve their issues, focus on your family and healing their souls.

Your family is suffering and for no reason if you would just back away and let the chips fall where they may.

Good Luck!

Sorry your mom is doing so poorly and dad has his head in the sand. So, guess it's time to back off a bit. Due to forgetfulness and repetitivness, I would say it sounds like my mom with dementia. Meaner could also be due to it since what little filter she may have had could be being eroded. Your mom obviously has issues and isn't really choosing to treat people so poorly. Doesn't mean you need to deal with it. Especially not with your kids. They will be hurt and not understand that grandma's brain is broken. So, let your dad take care of her and when he's burnt out, which shouldn't take long, maybe he'll be looking to be honest and get her the help she needs.

You could send a message/note to her doctor, explaining her behavior so that next time she does go to the doctor, he will have some info on hand and can try to test her and hopefully refer her to someone for further assessment.

Best of luck.

You can’t really do anything for her. That’s up to your dad. You might as well give up the hope that this can be normal. I’m really sorry about the situation but it was a long time in the making, and all you can do is back off.

I have a book recommendation for you.
It is titled Never Simple and is a memoir by Liz Scheier.
It is about her attempts life long to deal with her mentally ill mother, along with the help of the social services of the city and state of New York.
All to no avail.

I doubt very much that you can get her evaluated, and even if you do, being mentally ill is, as the law says, not against the law in our country. Your father is her next of kin. He seems to have satisfied himself that he is helpless in this matter, and he is correct.

You cannot change things. You didn't cause them and you cannot cure them. Many mentally challenged people never had children, and there are therefore not children or grandchildren to intervene. It is best you act in that manner and call APS to report an adult at risk for assessment. Tell APS that you do not wish to be involved in care, nor to act as POA or guardian, and that you request gaurdianship of the state. That will likely not happen. I would not attempt to intervene. I think it an exercise in absolutely futility.

Your question is “how to get her evaluated”, because you think that she has an “undisclosed mental illness”.

How would it help if she is “evaluated”? Many borderline mental illnesses are difficult to distinguish from just being mean, lacking self control, being badly brought up etc etc. There are arguments between professionals about what constitutes a mental illness, or a particular mental illness, and the rules change from time to time. No-one is likely to come and take her away to be cared for, whatever the evaluation says. The people involved (including you) quite possibly won’t accept the verdict, other than to add it to arguments. You could perhaps let her off the hook by blaming everything on a mental illness, but you may find that it doesn’t make it any more tolerable.

You might do better by just accepting that’s the way your parents are, and deciding how to deal with it. This site is full of people with difficult parents, working out boundaries with them, deciding when to cut off connections. It can give you lots of ideas that might be more practical help.

Your folks dynamic works for them. It may be far from perfect, but then, who's perfect?

Have a google search on *co-dependant*. It can happen different ways, but they both get their needs met & can function together.

I've seen this dynamic a few times now, where one is moody or volitile & the other learns to bend & adjust to avoid the drama, meaness or tandrum. You wonder why they put up with it.. but they have their reasons.

It is awful watching people put up with abuse. Would Dad be open to some councelling himself? To skill HIM up with strategies to deal with his situation? If not, that is his choice.

I have no idea how to get her evaluated but I would not take my children around her. You didn’t have a choice when you were a kid. They do have a choice not to be a part of her life.

I am sorry that you went through that as a child. Your father is the type who sweeps things under the rug which never works.

I don’t think you will be able to change your dad’s behavior. As difficult as this situation is, you will have to make peace with accepting it.

Your dad is in the driver’s seat and he’s not concerned about getting your mom any help. I’m so sorry.

Wishing you peace during this difficult time. Protect your children. Do the opposite of what your father did when you were young.

You can’t. She never wanted help with her issues before and she won’t want it now. In her world, everyone else is the problem, not her.

Your dad goes along to get along and that won’t change either. I will never understand how mean, angry women manage to marry men that cater to their every whim.

So, all you can do is keep your kids away from her. They shouldn’t have to endure her verbal abuse. Even if the kids know grandma is insane, there’s no excuse for being her verbal punching bags.

I feel for your situation, I truly do. Your mom sounds like she could be my mom's sister. Your dad is used to this situation that he created; he probably thinks he has it "under control" like my dad thought he did.

My dad was afraid of my mom until the day he died. He put up with her abuse for 60 years. I remember begging him as a kid to divorce her, and he never would. He figured it was cheaper to keep her, and that she would make his life a living hell and clean him out financially if they ever divorced. Instead, they blew through all their money, including their house, with reckless abandon at the end and had absolutely nothing to show for it (My dad had a horrendous gambling addiction).

My mom is now finally in a nursing home where she belongs and people are being paid to deal with her, (and I never have to see her again if I don't want to) and my dad is at rest and finally free from his Hell on Earth. I would suggest getting good therapy, it has done wonders for me to help process and understand that all of this is not my fault.

I would keep the children away from the grandmother is she's making nasty comments. My mom did that to my adult son, and he gave it right back to her. She deserved it fully and had it coming. Sometimes you have to stay away to make a point come across.

I wish you the best of luck, this is not easy to deal with. I basically went no contact with my mom. She's a defcon level 5 narcissist and a master manipulator, so I have to keep her at arm's length to protect my sanity.

Perhaps you can check with your local department on aging/seniors Adult Protective Services, they may be able to be of some assistance.

Honestly, what would be the point? To be able to put a label on mom as to why she acts the way she does?

It won't help and she won't get better. Just trust me on this.

My mom had chronic depression and just suffered along with it. She was really never "ok" until she started having a little dementia. As a family with 6 kids, 5 of hers were on antidepressants/antianxiety meds for much of our adult lives.

My MIL is in Hospice now and she has zero filter on her. We don't have a label as to WHY she's so awful and IDK if it would even help if we had one. At 93? The kids just say 'she's crazy' and that covers it. AT 93 she isn't going to embrace therapy or even taking an AD.

Sorry--this just wouldn't work out. Something that you have to deal with--and cannot change.

Sounds like my parents. Mom was mentally unbalanced and mean as a snake. Dad took it on the chin, for some reason, making me feel like it was MY fault she was so "nervous". He'd stick up for her no matter what.

Fast forward to mom at 88 and dad at 91. Mom now has dementia, as most mentally unbalanced people tend to develop later in life imo, and has become even MEANER and more abusive to dad. They lived in AL and she'd treat the staff like royalty, and the rest of us like trash. Now dad started fighting back because he had a brain tumor and his days were numbered. Many times dh and I were called over there to break up their ugly fights. Yet dad STILL stuck up for her if we said anything about her nasty behavior! 😑

At that juncture, work it out yourselves folks. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

The dynamics of a dysfunctional marriage is not something the children can or should get involved in. My folks were married for 68 years and if either were THAT miserable, they'd have divorced.

I'd keep my kids away from the dysfunction of your parents relationship, unless it's something they're interested in subjecting themselves to. My mother was harsh with my kids and they chose to back off more and more as time went on.

My mother WAS diagnosed with dementia later in life which accomplished nothing anyway. What would have helped was if she'd asked for and gotten help earlier on in life when she was a raging lunatic and I was a scared 6 year old growing up in a crazy house.

My wife was the same. But as her dementia progressed, she turned into a docile person who mostly does what she's told. Before the dementia she was controlling and downright mean. Maybe, just maybe, you can experience the same thing. Some get worse, some just change. Remember, if you know one person with dementia, you know one person. They are all different.

1. Practice self care for yourself, your spouse and your children; this may mean distancing the grandchildren from the grandmother to not subject them to the unhealthy verbal emotional dynamics; think of it like if there was a contagious illness like COVID or worse in the home, one would not take minors into the disease riddled environment. Explain to the children that the grandparent is ill and, they can write her get well cards and mail them if they want.
You might get some good direction on this as far as the children are concerned by consulting with a " Child life Counselor". A pediatrician can refer you or you can contact a hospital to get some names or they may be listed in yellow pages.

For your own adult self care,
1. Limit your visits ,space out how frequently you visit and keep the visits short. Explain ahead of time to your parents that you will be doing this under the present unhealthy circumstances experience with your mother. And that if you come and she begins the unhealthy verbal attacks, you will leave. If your mother and father are mentally capable at all of understanding, this might be a beginning.
2. Who is the POA? Is your father of sound mind to be POA and make safe decisions for your mother and himself??? Determine if you need to acquire POA status for both of them.
3. Confer with their PCP IF you are listed by them on their records as being permitted to talk with their PCP. If you are not, you need to discuss this.
4. Confer with an Elder Law Attorney about the present situation and get the input re the who what where when how whys of " elder care".
5. Get support for yourself from a licensed counselor.
6. If you feel or observe, or deem the situation as " unsafe" in the home with regards to your mother or your father's inability or unwillingness to get help, you can call APS ( Adult Protective Services) and report, anonymously,( if you want) the home concerns and APS can go to the home and assess/ follow through with their recommendations. You may want to tell your father ahead of time that if he continues to refuse to get your mother assessed and help, that for everyone's safety andvwell being that you will call APS. THIS might or might not get him to understand the gravity of the situation.
Or, you can choose not to tell him, and just follow through.
7. If you are in the home and observe mother' s behaviors escalate or any change you deem unsafe, you should call 911 and have her transported to ER. You and your father can then go from there consult with hospital staff and options for mother 's care. Expect her to fight not being taken. This is why you or someone capable needs to have POA status. Again consult about this with Elder Law Attorney.

Or, you can delete all of the above and, walk away from the home, tell your father and mother that unless and until they are willing to allow proper medical care, that you cannot and will not be involved any longer.
Then call APS, report the unhealthy situation in the home and let APS take over

Sounds harsh, but sometimes continuing to be in a situation actually enabled the wrong situation to continue. Removing oneself and turning it over to other professionals, may force your father and mother to get the help they both need but for perhaps pride reasons, fear, control etc etc reasons will not.

Blessings....put self care at the top of the list.

The description of your mother’s lifelong behaviors is just like the lifelong behaviors of my brother. He too, has lifelong undiagnosed mental illness. My other sibling and I were raised to tiptoe around the outbursts, rudeness, and meanness. There were arguments between my very loving parents as my mother saw the need to get help for brother and my dad believed it would “stigmatize” him. No diagnosis or help has ever happened. And his behavior has also worsened. His adult children maintain a relationship from a safe distance with definite boundaries. I read the book Boundaries and even took the class based on the book. It taught me a lot on how to deal with him in a safe for me manner. Please know that your mother will not change, except to worsen. Your father too, will not change, his defense and denial are well established patterns. Please don’t subject your children to this again, they do not deserve this treatment. I’m sorry you didn’t get the parents, and your children, the grandparents that you needed. But please realize you cannot fix or change long established patterns. Deal with your parents as it’s healthy and best for you. I wish you peace

Nothing you can do except cut ties with mom and dad and leave them to their own devices. No one needs to be treated this way by anyone.

Good Morning,

Do you think that if you approached your father and ask him to take your mother for an evaluation to a Geriatric Neuro-psy doctor that could be a good opener. Perhaps, if you present it as, "I want to make sure Mom doesn't have the onslaught of Dementia of some sort". I'll take her and go out for lunch afterwards.

The doctors can run different tests for spatial and memory. Sometimes an MRI, Cat Scan can also be given and compared after 6 months. Did mother have a TIA, a seizure of some sought or a mini stroke?

I think if you presented it as a visit to a Neurologist you may have better luck. That's if you can even get an official diagnosis.

A blood work panel for electrodes--potassium, iron, etc. can tell a lot. Is there an infection, UTI of some sought. Again, all of these things can mimic a change in behavior.

In all honesty, the men doesn't always know what to do. They just use avoidance and don't deal with the issue at hand. I would keep a log of any "unusual" behavior or changes in behavior.

Mid 70's is still young in this day an age. I would hate to see you live like this for the next 20 years when perhaps maybe with the right medication things can improve for all of you.

I am a firm believer in exercise and socialization. By that I mean a simple good pair of walking shoes, fresh air, nature, flowers on the table and the Church people visit on a Sunday.

Keep tv to a minimum. There's a lot going on now all over the world but do we really need to know everything in every single City. What about music...the older people music of their era makes them happy and is good for their memory.

Sometimes people have the attitude, well things have always been like this. It is what it is. But maybe, just maybe there is answer out there that could give your mother a better quality of life.

Some doctors after an initial visit will do Telehealth appointments.

A structured routine, good meals, always have something to look forward to. Today my mother has our neighbor bringing homemade Baklava from the Church. It's Mom's favorite dessert. We are helping our neighbor by buying some and mother is happy! It's a treat for her on a Sunday.

It's doesn't have to be a million $$$ experience but your everyday quality of life.
I am coming from the Lewy Body Dementia diagnosis so oftentimes these Dementia's can mimic what you think is mental illness. You know your mother best but I just wanted to give you some info that maybe "some" of it would be of help in your mother's situation. But again, you know her well and her history.

We try to share our resources and experiences on this platform and you take what you need from it and hopefully we are all helping one another.

You sound like a really good person that wishes things would get better but you can't get the support.

If dad won't convince her/insist that she get treatment, there is nothing you can do about her behaviors.

What you CAN do is call and let dad know that you and your family will not tolerate any more verbal or emotional abuse from her. You will love them from a distance until her mental health issues are addressed. You respect her choice to refuse treatment and his choice to endorse that refusal.

They, in turn, will be forced to respect your choice not to expose yourself and your family to verbal and emotional abuse.

Healthy boundaries are so important in situations such as this.

Contact Adult Protect Services (APS), right after you video a family dinner where you spend hours together in close quarters. Sorry, but you need proof..

Family therapy would help your children understand mental illness and how you have endured the wrath of your mother and the shameful behavior your father displayed in his lack of courage to protect the children.

Hopefully, APS will evaluate for placement. A Geriatric Psychiatrist could intervene with medications while you and your family redirect to other relatives or friends to visit.

She sounds like she has OCPD (if so, she will never get better because you're the one with the problem, not her) - plus she is probably bipolar (have a similar family member although not as extreme). Are there times she acts absolutely normal, like around doctors and non-family members? If so, she will be able to fool them.

Personally distance might be a good idea. Just don't go over. Let Dad deal with her. Maybe she will be a good girl if you just don't go there awhile. Spread out your visits too. Like once every 6 months for your own sanity.

Good luck!

I echo some of the other comments here what good would a diagnosis do ? My MIL was given anti anxiety meds and refused to take them she would tell us how we are trying to shut her up ! Incredible so she is left to run her mouth , cause chaos , insult people , and pretty much make everyone feel miserable . Boundaries are the way to go

Havefaith22: Your parents are living a life of codependency. Unfortunately mom is too ill to know the difference. Go through your mother's primary care physician to get a referral to a neurologist.

Sounds just like my mother… so sorry. My mother had several strokes and due to her disability I moved her and my dad closer to me. Her rage’s continued and she would physically attack my dad. During one of these episodes she fell, I then called 911 ( she had a bad cut from her fall), the ER doctor said we could have her evaluated on psychiatric hold instead of having her come home. Was the best decision, she was there 1 week and diagnosed with bi polar disorder and has been on medication.. she is a different person, wish this had been done many years ago.
Good luck to you.

If your dad gets hurt during this you can call 911 and inform the personnel that she may have a mental issue they will have her taken and put on a psychiatric evaluation. Its sad you may have to wait for a physical problem to happen but if dad is in denial it just may take that kind of incident to make things happen. Or if you can get her to a doctors appointment under a false pretense - thats what I did with my daddy. I just told him we were going to the doctor - he did not know what kind of doctor it was and he just came with me. I told him we needed the appointment to get his medicine refilled.

I would call a family meeting as a united front. Tell your parents that unless they seek help for mom & be more respectful towards you & the rest of your family, you will no longer visit as they are abusive & disrespectful towards you. Keep your word. If they reach out to help them get started, help. Otherwise let them be. No need to be a punching bag.

She would definitely benefit from an evaluation.

Sounds a lot like what my siblings and I went through. My mother is an abusive bully. It was (and still is) difficult being her daughter. I honestly don’t know how my father put up with her for 70 plus years.

I don’t know if it is mental illness or just a miserable personality.