My father has had a TBI and has early signs of dementia. They went to look at leasing a car and were coerced into signing a lease. They were definitely taken advantage of. They never went back to pick up the car and said they wanted out of deal. Well, the dealership was livid and verbally abusive on the phone. They became scared. We live in Mass. Is there anything we can do so they are not financialy liable? What will happen if they don't do anything? I've contacted a lawyer but any advice is helpful. They actually went unbeknownst to me and leased another car. They care for my disabled sister financially and I'm nervous this could hurt them financially.
Are you saying they left the dealers and went to another one and leased a car there too? Are you sure its not buyers remorse on their part? Did they contact the first place the same day and inform them they were canceling the first lease?
I think your parents may have gotten themselves into a mess and it will take a lawyer to get them out.
You definitely need the advice on an attorney here. You need careful diary of when car bought, who was contacted to notify dealership with the diagnosis of dementia (if there is one). If there IS NO FORMAL diagnosis of dementia then it is going to be difficult to get out of this lease, and usually the canceling of same has time limited rules (read the lease).
YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. Advice of of Forum just won't do here. But you CAN tell the car dealership that your have Newspaper and Media contacts and will "make them famous" if they don't deal with these elders in cancelling the contract. Meanwhile, it is important you see the attorney at ONCE. As I said, in these instances time matters.
You can say that these people suffer from dementia, but the fact is how is a dealership to know this Many can confabulate very well and seem quite rational in business dealings. I worry if these folks are caring for a disabled sister financially if they cannot manage their own financial decisions; that also would not wash well in court, because the dealership can come back on the information saying that if these people are incapable of making their own decisions why have they no guardian? Why have they no financial POA or fiduciary? And etc.
GET THAT LAWYER NOW.
When I read that 68 and 73 is not elderly, I want to cheer, and agree, but in my family, that was considered old age. One of many things I grew up under, that I’m rejecting for my best health.
I don’t have good advice to offer about this car situation, just wanted to observe that what is considered middle age to some, is way elderly young others, and that attitude is crippling. Jmho.
I wish you the best and hope a reasonable solution can be found.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/dealer-information
Read the contract. If the down payment is similar to what you’d pay the lawyer, consider offering to let the dealer keep it if they’ll cancel the contract. You could also look into car lease exit and how much it would cost to “resell” the lease to someone else.
The larger problem is what to do going forward. It sounds like they are competent enough that the legal system will let them continue to make their own bad decisions.
If you believe they are still competent, get POA etc. done ASAP and see if you can do anything to help disabled sister prepare to make other financial arrangements. Beg them not to talk to high pressure salespeople: no in home demonstrations, no estimates from contractors, no free lunch seminars! Help them to minimize their junk mail and keep their donations under control.
The period when they are ok to drive a car, but incompetent to lease one is difficult to navigate and doesn’t improve.
If you truly believe one or both is already incompetent you need to make some tough decisions. How involved are you willing to be? Is POA enough or do they need a conservator? It’s not easy to disable their ability to enter contracts.
Edited to add:
Their Social Security income should be safe from a judgement on this kind of debt. Pension income and RMDs from retirement accounts would be vulnerable. However, this kind of debt is more likely to trash their credit than result in a judgement. Inability to get credit may not be a bad thing at this point.
As always, if you want legal advice you can rely on, consult an appropriate attorney.
I would read all the fine print in the lease contract, especially anything regarding termination of the contract. Is the contract only in his name or also in your Mom's name? Is your Mom mentally competent to make financial decisions? I would suggest that you find an elder lawyer immediately and put paperwork in place so that this doesn't happen again and 2) see if that elder lawyer can advise you or refer you to some one who can advise you about this existing unwanted contract.
P.S. Either way you will be out of some amount of money. At this point, the question just is how much. Praying for you.
You don't mention your parent's ages. I am 72 my husband is 75 and I don't feel we need to get our daughters' permission to buy or lease a car. Until you get a formal diagnoses on Dad, there is not much you can do. If you don't have them yet, before u get that diagnoses you may want to get DPOA on both your parents. Tell Dad that if you don't have them, the State can step in and take over their care and money.
If you father is even in the early stage of Dementia he has lost the ability to reason. I have never leased a car but I know when I sign that paperwork, I now own that car. Your father and mother must have bought a number of cars and know that. Both of them going to another dealer and signing again shows that both your parents have some kind of problem. What can you do, not much without a diagnoses of incompetence. I know, now you have to deal with the problem. I so hope the dealer can be reasoned with. Don't go in blaming them. Go in asking if they can help you resolve the problem.
Now your sister. Does she live with them? Does she get Social Security Disability? Supplimental Income? Medicare and/or Medicaid. There is no reason they should be supporting her if she is and if not getting these things, she should be. My nephew gets SSD and with that Medicare and Medicaid. He has housing based on his income. Even with SSD ur allowed to work but there is a limit to how much u can make.
There have been posts where parents have not found help for a disabled child thinking that one of the siblings will care for the disabled child. Usually one sibling finds they are caring for a parent and the disabled sibling too. So, if plans have not been made for the disabled sister you may want to look into this too. You mentioned in your profile that Mom suffers from depression and anxiety. She will have enough on her plate with Dad let alone caring for a disabled child. If this child is home, may be the cause of Moms problems.
Either way, the parents are going to be paying for something regardless of semantics.
A dealership is in the business of making money. They do the necessary background checks, credit checks, required to ensure that the buyer(s) in front of them are creditworthy to take on the payments for the vehicle. They had two people in front of them that legally signed a document assuming the responsibility to pay for a vehicle. That is the agreement on the table. As long as your mom was competent to sign I wonder what the legal ramifications are around this even if your dad wasn't.
My heart goes out to you, it really does. It doesn't sound like your dad is able to make good sound decisions anymore and maybe your mom is very used to him being the decision maker which is a hard spot. We recently went through a somewhat similar situation . FIL wanted to take out a loan, we (his caregivers - SIL, BIL, DH and myself) were NOT in favor - but we do not get a vote as he is competent (no dementia documented - age related decline, at this time immobile, physical decline only) to make his own choices no matter how ill advised. It was clear that even the loan company had some concerns as they asked if anyone else would be on the loan with him (NO). And finally he was asked to provide documentation from his doctor as to his competency to sign documents assuming legal responsibility for debt. His doctor provided said documentation. (we still question this, but he provided this documentation). After this - because everything else checked out, the loan company approved the loan. They had no basis on which to deny him the loan at that point. But I fully believe if the doctor had given them a reason to question his competency they would have been able to deny it based on that or found some way around approving the loan because it was clear that the loan officer had concerns. That letter from the doctor was her covering her rear end if things go south. I don't know if what they did was even legal or discriminatory against him, but quite frankly given the way he behaved on the phone I'm glad they asked him for it because had it been me I would have wanted to cover my rear end too.
I say all of that to say this - the concept of what we believe is competent and what the law believes is competent is probably pretty broadly different. We see our loved ones and see the changes and watch the changes and see them lose their ability to make good decisions. The law defines it very tightly. It is a legal definition. It doesn't matter what we think is competent. I wouldn't have given my FIL a dime. But legally he is competent to make whatever ill advised decision he wants.
I would certainly invest the energy into a lawyer consultation and see what could potentially be done to back them out of this, but I wouldn't hold your breath and as others have suggested, a buy out may be the only option.
On the flip side, your parents are, or should be, collecting Social Security Disability Insurance (SDDI) funds for your sister; that could pay for her transportation (e.g., a van that can be used for her). When they pass, YOU may be called up to take care of her and to get her placed in an appropriate setting where you can visit frequently, but not end up being her nurse.
Your parents are financially liable because they signed a contract. A lease is a contract and yes, it will hurt them financially if they do nothing don't pay the lease. In fact, it will ruin their credit for at least the next seven years.
Please go with them to the dealership they leased the vehicle from. They might make a deal with you to settle on a lesser amount that agreed upon if your parents never took the vehicle.
Please don't try with the verbal abuse or the scaring of your elderly parents angle. That will get you and your parents nowhere. Try to negotiate a buy out with the car dealership. Then take over your parents finances. They are incompetent if they do things like this. Maybe bring in some help for your disabled sister too.
Relative left his home unaccompanied in motorized wheelchair and went down the street to the car dealership. This relative had some obvious disabilities and common sense should have somehow prevailed here. I do not believe he had a valid license (he had not driven for many years prior to this) or insurance. He promised the dealership a cash deal and I don't know at what point the deal was discovered by a relative and stopped. It must have gone pretty far because I know the dealership had to be threatened with legal action, but I don't know if anything actually had to be done legally.
I know the salesman obviously needed the sale. I know several non-driving people who DO have car in their name. I know discrimination is wrong and we should not make assumptions about others' capabilities. If I could truly post the full details on this forum, I think most would agree that salesman took advantage of the situation. This is wrong. I do hope salesman pursued another line of work going forward.
Fwiw 60ish lady across street from my mom had early dementia and leased a car. (Probably was taken advantage of) She went downhill fast, unable to pay her bills or do basic ADL stuff; moved out & over to live w niece abt 6 months after lease started. Car parked in garage & house unoccupied. Niece called finance co on car and they essentially were not interested in ending the deal or getting the car. It went on for abt year & 1/2 and then got repo’d (garage miraculously became unlocked). A judgement for the full amount of the lease placed on her as car was considered “junk” value. Apparently this is the standard predatory behavior dealerships do. If this had been a State other than TX or FL (very pro property rights States) that judgement would have gotten placed on her home and when house got sold the $ value of the judgement paid to whomever held judgement.
And that Dementia78 is what I’d be concerned about…. That finance co will seek a judgement against your dad for full value plus fees and whatever BS they can attach to thier filing at the courthouse. If your dad & moms only source of income is SSA $ or a civil service type of pension, those are protected from any seizure from a creditor EXCEPT for the IRS or State tax authorities. ((IRS / State tax are “super creditors” so can actually do this, but most folks unaware this is the case)). But the debt collectors will hound your folks till forever nevertheless, will say anything to cause fear and eventually will place the judgement $ amount onto any real property your folks own. I’d be very concerned that dad or mom in fear signs off on a repayment plan.
Personally imo stuff like this isn’t the usual debt collection complaint that one can deal with if done within 30 days of debtor letter type of stuff. It’s contract law on real property, and that auto lease contract is not written in buyers favor ever. Ya need an atty to do this and while at it, they get an associate of theirs to do whatever paperwork to have you become guardian on your folks or do whatever to have you in charge of parents financials. It will be challenging but necessary. Good luck.
What should I do before signing my contract?
Be sure to review the terms before signing any motor vehicle sales contract and financing documents. Check to make sure that the amounts, rates, and add-on items in the documents match what you discussed with the sales representative. Additionally, you should make sure that the information on the financing documents matches what you put on your application and that the terms are affordable.
You must be given copies of sales and financing documents at the time of purchase. Before leaving with the vehicle, make sure to request all documents and review them to ensure that they are accurate.
Learn about the history of your car
When purchasing a used vehicle, you can use the vehicle’s make, model and Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) to check for open recalls with the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration. You can get a vehicle history report using a free service, but be aware those reports are not always accurate. You can also obtain a title history report through the Registry of Motor Vehicles.
Having an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle is also a good way to make sure you are not purchasing a defective vehicle.
Can I cancel the purchase of my car?
You do not have a 3-day right to cancel your purchase of a new or used vehicle if you are unhappy with the vehicle. Once a contract is signed, it is considered legally binding. However, you should still review all the terms of the vehicle sales contract or other written agreement to see if there is any part of it that would allow you to cancel the contract after it has been signed.
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I am not sure this helps, but it does have numbers to try to help resolve issues.
Also, if possible, lock their credit so this won't happen again. It's probably the only thing that can stop it. An Attorney is your best option.
Have you been able to help your parents?
If you have a written diagnosis that is dated prior to the signature on the contract bring it with you when you talk tot he attorney.
But then they went ahead and signed another lease with another dealership.
I would begin the put a tighter reign on their financial doings.
It makes one wonder if they should bother answering questions when you don't know if you are being helpful or not.