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Recap: 91 yrs old, recovered from knee replacement and subsequent MRSA and sepsis. Still no diagnosis of dementia or onset, lives alone and he’s back volunteering 40 hrs a week at VA hospital and his weekly bus trip to gamble (not an addiction but a pastime he can afford and enjoys greatly) I see a difference in his behavior/personality but it’s chalked up as age appropriate so far.
Last year was THE WORST so I’m really dreading this year. I have 1 son and my girlfriend has 1 daughter so we spend holidays together because our families are out of town or estranged. I always invite him over, take him with us, but he’s been wrecking it. Last Christmas I was sick, had very little money but still managed. Cooked Italian food for 3 days, Christmas morning I’m wrapping the few presents and packing everything up and called told him I’d be later than noon to pick him up. (My friend was hosting since she decorated and I didn’t cuz I was sick mid December so I did food) she knew he preferred white meat so she spent her food stamps and cooked all day Xmas eve so he had a completely different meal to cater to his preference, NOT a dietary need. He started calling me at 12:15 every 15 minutes with snarky messages. I just couldn’t wrap, finish cooking, shower, and pack up everything fast enough for him! Upon our arrival when I saw she cooked an entire day/meal I told him how wonderful and how special he is treated and he just sat there pouting that he had waited for me to pick him up. We put on sports channel got him situated on couch and proceeded to get dinner together, 2 different dinners. He bitched, pouted, and was so rude and unappreciative I was so embarrassed, ashamed of him and angry I couldn’t see straight. I couldn’t get him fed, throw presents at our children and leave her home fast enough. He offered no gifts or even cash or cards to our children, he always carries over $500 on him, he has plenty of money and he’s completely mobile. SHE SPENT HER KIDS FOOD STAMPS JUST TO FEED THE MAN!!!!!
I’m dreading both Thanksgiving and Christmas and that’s not fair when he would otherwise sit home alone instead of being catered to, fed, and a pile of presents knee high (we try so hard to pull off holidays with meager means but we do it every time). I thought about fibbing that we’d be spending Xmas out of state with family, it seems so mean though. Do I let him ruin both holidays again or let him sit home alone?

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Power: Thank you for that update. I am glad to hear that you had a quaint Thanksgiving and that godfather got the plate of food. Good job!
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Power, how did things work out?
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Awwww JoAnn so nice of you to remember me.
My son and I were invited to my Aunts new home in the foothills, so I was very hesitant since I have very little family. After much thought (her being 70 and house full of boxes) plus she doesn’t pay for sports channel, has no coffee pot and did ham, I couldn’t subject her or myself to it 😢 I just couldn’t. I told him he wouldn’t have coffee or sports or white meat and he said it was “ noooo problemo” but I know better so if he made her feel bad I would have not handled it well! We had a stint of bad weather so I had to drive my truck and I can’t lift him into it, plus steep driveway and stairs (I exaggerate a bit) it wasn’t a good combination so I told him I couldn’t get him there safely and he would be miserable considering his behavior last year when he had all those things so I was going alone. He still never has apologized or ensured me it wouldn’t happen again.
We had a wonderful warm quaint Thanksgiving without him, I feel a little bad but would have felt FAR worse had he insulted my dear Aunty and made me drive an hour back home hungry and angry. I brought a plate of goodies for him. He got it today.
I hope you had a nice day and all turned out well?
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Xenajada, my mother was the same way. We always went to my in-laws for Christmas Eve but had my mother over to our house on Christmas Day. She couldn’t wait to leave and go to the casino. The casino is open 24 hours a day even on Christmas Day. They have no shame. They are greedy for your money!!!
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Celebrate with your family and pick an other day to share with your GF. That snarky inpatient behavior is part of the dynamic to keep you focused on HIS NEEDS. Start working on that perfect fib cover up. He has to decide if he will sit home alone or come (alternate day) to your house (or out for a burger?) and enjoy your company in a no snark/grumpy zone.
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I dread these holidays every year and am 77. The grinch of the family. My Mom always loved Christmas so much. I feel bad that I don't like it at all. I just get through it and older I get more I understand it is only a few days out of the year. They go pretty fast.
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AT1234 Nov 2019
Glad it’s not just me, Alva.
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He is no longer mentally competent. Cognitive decline is a sign of something wrong. The elderly can have symptoms of dementia with an infection. He needs to be professionally evaluated because it won’t get better with firmness on your part. He really does need to be in a care facility.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
I’m still trying, he told me he waited on hold 20 minutes to make the appt but I’m not sure I trust what he says. We spoke and my son had been in an accident so I was at Drs due to headache, I said I couldn’t do dinner his response was ‘ ok take care, maybe lunch tomorrow or dinner?” Kind of a passive response to a possible head injury and of course I got angry. I reiterated there was an accident in case he didn’t hear me but he doesn’t care about anything besides him. I go see him couple times a week to look for signs of onset but he’s onto me. He won’t be deemed incompetent so placing him is a ways out unfortunately.
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He should be in a safe enviroment... Senior living/independent living..apartments... They usually have activities.

My friend moved he FIL into one. They went over everyday to walk him to the cafeteria... and followed him back to his apartment... He never got it... He was clever enough to catch a ride from security... :)

He ended up in the memory care unit after a couple falls and mishaps...

Start looking into senior living areas near you... They usually have fun functions and things for seniors to do.. He might appreciate more friends and people around.... Visit a few with him and take tours with him.. They will usually give you a free meal when you tour the facility.... Make a fun daytrip of it.. He might really enjoy it.. Engulf yourselves take the time and visit...
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
There’s no way he’s leaving his home yet, the behavioral signs have begun in my opinion but he’s going to keep hiding it unless he doesn’t even know, which is likely. I let him drive last week and he did amazing. Until something substantial happens he’s not going anywhere, it’s a matter of time. So far I’m not seeing anything of concern around his home. He’s just a rude jerk and selfish. It’s not enough...yet. Kind of a hide-and-watch game.
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He is 91.. Point blank, tell him he is welcome to join your family for holidays. Any negative gestures or pouts are not allowed. If he wants to continue, he may do so in his home-alone. Have UBER or taxi number ready to call to pick him up and take him home. Thank him for is visit and send him away. And do talk with taxi or UBER prior to the holidays to make sure this is ok to do. You don't need elder abuse mixed in with his dementia. And do have this talk with him prior to bringing him over... It will not be tolerated... do you understand?

By the way, when was the last time he had a check up.. CT SCAN OR UTI ?
It could be just cranky 91 year old stuff hitting his mind/brain, that he is no longer in control of himself...

He lives alone... anyone checking on him on a daily /weekly basis?
Tell him if he wants to come over, it will cost him $50 per child towards their college fund.. Might as well start saving for college now... and if he has funds... let him know, degrees are not free.. any help to get them a degree is so much appreciated...
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"Im not sure I can step away now." Power, I second (third? fourth?) the motion that you should seek legal help right away. If you end up with POA, you may have way more trouble that your family or marriage can handle. You may want to use that attorney to sever the accounts in common and pay the tax liabilities. This guy sounds like bad news and a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you are found responsible, you may have to pay for any fines or whatever that he incurs. Does he have NO relatives at all? You really need to back out or you may look back on the tax savings and other involvements as the most expensive (emotionally, maritally, legally, even physically) savings you ever had. Don't sit on this one.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
I need to take this information and mole it over. A lot has happened in the last year regarding mental health issues and I been concentrating on this last summer. I guess I didn’t realize and possibly was an antagonist of last Christmas. I will help get him situated, I feel compelled to do that much, I have set him up once and I can do it again. No he has no family or children at all. I will definitely make certain he gets the best care. I will not commit to doing it as personal caretaker myself, but I can orchestrate from a distance. The legal parts I’ll do more research on before I sign up for anything. California is a bit different so I appreciate you pushing to delve further 😉
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There is something seriously mentally wrong with your godfather. Why would you subject others to him? Why would you allow him to be disrespectful to others at the holiday table? I'm surprised the host didn't pull you aside and ask you all to leave. How is it that you are more concerned about hurting this man's feelings than protecting the feelings of others he has hurt?
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Oh NYDIL so much has come forward in the past week, a whole new host of issues🥴 holidays are almost a non issue with all I’ve found out! Wish me luck!
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Have you consulted an Eldercare attorney?
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So, PO3, Take a step back, yes?

Are you your godfather's guardian?

If you are not, you have no legal responsibility. You need to tell the VA that they should proceed how they feel they should because YOU have no legal authority to MAKE him do anything.

Sometimes we need to step away in order for folks to get the care they need.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Im not sure I can step away now. I need to be prepared. We share some financial accounts (was for tax purposes) I’m going to pursue POAs both medical and financial but as for guardianship I’m not sure, it puts a lot of liability on me, doesn’t it?
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Power, I think that his a actions show that he may be a bit farther into dementia than he seems, lack of understanding and empathy, then saying everyone else is lying, those are symptoms if he wasn't always like that, and I am guessing he wasn't or he would not volunteer to help our brave military men and women.

Unfortunatly this probably means that you have to spend time with him to figure out how bad he has become. Any hospitalization or medical incident can cause an increase that may or may not get better. It is usually the people that know him well see change before any doctor would notice.

I would ask the director of volunteers for their opinion and that of others that have known him throughout the years.

The only thing that is certain with dementia is that it is all uncertain.

Look at this as progress towards him being safe and cared for.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Being a volunteer and not a patient means Hippa laws don’t apply so I’ve been waiting a couple days for the ER person in charge to contact me and inform me what she has seen over this last year, no call back yet. I’ve got a feeling it’s a progression of what’s more noticeable now. Dr been informed. Waiting for return call as well.
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I’m sorry too. It’s amazing how they can drive us insane and over the edge and the next moment our heart can wrench for them. Dang roller coaster!
Praying for strength for you and peace for him.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Thank you Bella, I do find comfort I’ve found you’all. A blessing in a windstorm is still a blessing.
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Oh man that is such bad, sad, heartbreaking, nerve wracking, temper flaring news.

I can't imagine how you feel.

One thing that I want to say, he may have a dementia that he really doesn't know that he is having a problem. I know it hard as can be when it looks like lies all over, no responsibility and no care for others, but I would bet that it is largely due to dementia.

His executive function is pretty gone based on what you posted.

I pray that you can help him, it is really difficult when they don't know that they are having problems. You will be accused of everything imaginable, know it is the disease, as much as it still hurts, he most likely hasn't a clue.

Hugs! Tough times.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Thank you, it’s sad and maddening at the same time. I feel you’all have armed me with so much knowledge but I’m confused as heck on where to start now. Called Dr and let her know what happened and he’s cancelled or avoided appt for geriatric neurologist. He even has long term care but I’m frightened how we get from point A to the part of placement. It could be years, driving accidents, i mean even his reaction to hindering others care was unnerving 😭I’m pre obsessing maybe?
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How’s it going, Power?
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
Very bad. I think it’s coming on and it’s going to be bad NHWM.
VA Volunteer Director called me yesterday that he would be arrested today if he continues to trespass at the VA hospital. They’ve been trying to get him out the ER Dept for a year! He convinced Everyone he made a full recovery (as for surgery yes) but he’s been getting complaints from dr and nurse staff all this time. He doesn’t care he’s in the way, he doesn’t care it’s fast paced and insists they’re lying and he’s no problem. His walker isn’t in the way and they don’t move that fast He Insists. I called PCP and found he’s cancelled all his appointments and also geriatric neurologist appt. He’s lying to me and PCP. I gotta be the bad guy so I’m guessing getting POA for medical and financial is going to be like pulling teeth😭
I took his access badge to hospital and they appreciate his kindness for volunteering but he isn’t a good fit in the ER. Can you imagine having to bail him out of jail because he keeps going and has been told he’s not welcome anymore, I guess they had to get rude finally. Do they even allow bail in military detention facilities? I don’t know where to start now if he’s not going to cooperate while he is mostly coherent????
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I would let him sit at home alone. That probably sounds harsh but I have had many a special occasion ruined by a pouty so and so and refuse to tolerate it anymore.

People who are pouty, high maintenance, and ungrateful deserve to be ignored in my opinion. Especially if it's not even due to a medical condition. Stop at Macdonald's, pick him up a big mac and throw it at the door.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2019
Gershun,

Okay, you have me cracking up with the Big Mac remark! Shame on you! Hahaha. Thanks for the giggle 🤣
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Needhelpwithmom, I agree with you!! A few years ago we quit going to our brother n laws house. Too much dysfunction. Who needs it? We just quit going. I told them ahead of time. That’s it. No fuss no muss. You don’t owe anybody anything!! I’m talking about Christmas Eve, but this can be done for ANY holiday. Just quit!!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2019
That’s right, Elaine! Good for you! It’s liberating. Why add to our stress? I wish I had done it much sooner.
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-SOMEONE POSTED REGARDING VA POLICE CAN HANDLE HIM so he could spend holidays there since he’s not THAT bad- AND TODAY ...It got worse much worse😭😭😭😭😭 VA Volunteer Director called me as last resort to take godfathers access pass or he'll be met with resistance by VA police for trespassing starting tomorrow morning at the hospital. They've told him for a year he needs a different position outside ER but he keeps showing up😧 and he’s in much poorer slower condition now. They tried giving him easy slower positions though still dealing with the public but he doesn't want it so he's been ignoring them all this time, as of tomorrow he'll be removed by force. Drs and nurses have been complaining for a year that he’s in the way, not fit to move fast enough to work in Emergency Room atmosphere and he’s got a cane or walker now so they cannot get to patients quickly when he’s there 🤬 omg, he's arguing, lying to my face, dismissive, and saying they’re lying and only “mentioned it twice” but the Head of ER AND Volunteer Coordinator sat down just this morning (5th official time) and he refused to give up his access pass! I had to physically take his pass and relinquish it at hospital just now. I think something very bad is coming on 😢
Id hoped it was just me he was dismissive towards, ignored or was rude to, i even wanted to lol the comment about VA police but here we are, no consideration for people who need emergency care or the professionals trying to help the patients, he’s a liability. This is it. He told PCP he was great and back to 40 hr week so she excused his geriatric neurologist appt. I’m hitting her office so hard tomorrow it’s gonna make my own head spin! The show has just begun ladies and gentlemen!
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
That was a lie too, he’s cancelled all appts. I found out this morning
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Why does he have to sit at home alone?  He volunteers at the VA hospital so why doesn't he help them out on holidays?  And the residents are closer to his own age, right?  Probably have much more in common. If I were you I'd just go ahead and have the holidays with my preferred family and if he asks why, just tell him what you told this forum.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
That’s out after today... see my most recent posting here.
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If you break the long held habit this year, you can set a new tradition & be free in the future. Could you tell him you are going out, going away, whatever, just not doing a big thing at your house.

I like that suggestion of delivering him a plate the day before - still caring & respectful but a separate visit. Even go out if you want. Then relax & enjoy your family your way.

Each holiday repeat.

I had to separate out my family from DHs family years & years ago. Now attempting to separate my parents/siblings from my DH & children so I can have some time to enjoy my little family while not being on elder/disability care duties the whole time.

Last year after cooking & bringing all the food, wheeling them around, setting them up, filling their plates etc I just sat down & raised the first forkful to my mouth. Fork mid air Sis says "I need to go to the toilet". No-one moved. No other able body even looked up, just kept eating. Resentment is building again thinking of it. Family slave quit right then.

Having my own Christmas this year.
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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2019
Good for you, smart lady!
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Why can’t there be a ‘drop off’ spot for all of the crazy relatives for the holidays? LOL. Kind of like boarding for dogs and cats.

My BIL used to get a kick out of my husband’s crazy grandma. She would say the craziest things!

My BIL didn’t live here. He moved to San Francisco for college and stayed there.

When he would visit he would sit next to me and whisper the funniest stuff in my ear. Sure, he didn’t have to put up with her crap year round like the rest of us, but he was pretty funny. He always said, “This is free entertainment. I could use this stuff to do a stand up comedy routine!”

I would tell him to work on his timing and then invite me to the show! Hahaha

We would crack up! Of course, we couldn’t tell my MIL what we were laughing at because she was so embarrassed by her mother’s behavior.

The woman couldn’t get through an evening without discussing her bowel movements. Geeeeez, slowly but surely, everyone would lose their appetite!
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Beatty Nov 2019
He he :)

My DH's Uncle was also a scream... He would gather all for a speech & toast & then swear until the older aunts & grandmas left the room - he just loved to make a scene! He would swear in front of the kids too - my son had never heard the c-word until he met this *gentleman*. Downed his cancer & pain meds in a saucer of gin chased by a bottle of wine last year. So no swearing like that will be heard now.
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Just be upfront and tell him how you feel. Tell him that the things he does really brings you down. Then let him know that if he continues, you will not spend Christmas with him. It's okay to tell him since he is still in his right m mind. If he continues to be rude, don't pick him up for Christmas so he knows that you warned him. He may apologize and be nicer to everyone.
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Do what I did a few years back. I quit doing holidays for everyone but my immediate family. Just quit!

You are not mean! Your children and girlfriend matter the most to you. They will be grateful to you.

You don’t owe him anything. I’m sorry but he is rude.

I cooked for three days before the holidays. My house was sparkling clean. My family would gobble up my food. When my brother was about to leave he would turn to my husband and thank him for the dinner and not one word to me.

My husband would tell him that I cooked everything and to thank me. It would ‘pain’ him to show any gratitude whatsoever to me. So, it started to ‘pain’ me to cook for ungrateful idiots! My husband and kids were relieved.

My mother lived with us. She thought I was awful. Too bad. Why torture yourself? Holidays were not made to be tortured.

Last I checked Thanksgiving was about giving thanks. Are you thankful for that kind of behavior? Nope! So eliminate it. Last I heard Christmas was about the birth of Jesus. It’s not about being annoyed!

Start a new tradition! Bring him a small dinner the day before, if you like. Doesn’t even have to be homemade. There are plenty of places that you can pick up a ready cooked meal. He will never know the difference!
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Beatty Nov 2019
Just quit. Love it!

You'd like my Aunt...

A family member (plus his tribe) kept insisting they would visit her. Expected to stay & be cooked for. She had said no.

So she went on a cruise for Christmas.
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Take him some food and a small gift and leave. At least you won't be playing his game, but you don't have to take his rudeness.
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You sound like you already made up your mind. If you had a close bond, I would say never abandon family. But destructive or abusive relationships can arise between parent and child. If it messed you up, do your kids a favor and don’t expose them to him. You have a responsibility to yourself.

As for telling him WHY you can’t be together at the holiday, of course not! That’s cruel. You absolutely lie. I’m against lying in general, but at that age, he’s not going to grow or change. Send him a dinner, don’t explain yourself beyond “there’s always next year” and make some happy memories.
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Talk with your girlfriend about what would make the holidays wonderful for your little family; it probably doesn't include a whiny godfather to contend with all day.

Since he is mobile and able; make a trip to see him separately (maybe in his place before or after each holiday) as you can afford. Make it a no gifts, no meal visit and make it short. Enjoy some conversation and maybe some cookies and drinks and call it a done deal. If he complains that you don't spend the holidays with him, then explain that you don't have the finances or the time to deal with a bigger get together.
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For years our family put up with my mom's alcoholism and the resulting bad behavior. It was the proverbial elephant in the living room. After she died of a stroke related to her drinking, I resolved never to be silent on such family issues ever again. Consequently, we stopped allowing my bullying father-in-law to visit and we no longer visited him.

My advice is to confront this man before the holidays arrive. Tell him in no uncertain terms that if he is either going to be civil and kind, or he is no longer welcome in your home. If he agrees to that, but then reverts to form, tell him you are done and you will no longer have any contact with him. Alternatively, you could cut off all contact with him now, and be perfectly at peace. Do not let anyone abuse you and your family this way! I learned the hard way after our entire family pretended my mom was not a mean drunk. It's not worth it. The worst that could happen is that he gets angry. Bullies use anger to control people. Let him be angry with somebody else.
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Let him be by himself.
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If there is no genuine diagnosed medical reason for this person's bad manners (ie dementia), I would use tough love. I would remind him how unhappy he was at the last family function, that you have heard about a community event or events that would seem to be more suited to his age group, pay for the events including community transport there and back. He may well find some soul mates with similar grievances, they will have a great time complaining together. They may even end up friends. If he does not attend, it is no different to you giving him a heap of parcels he does not appreciate nor use.
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