Our children are trying not to leave us alone with our grands. What can we do?

Algl66
There are many grandparent's support groups, maybe near you.
I do not know what the focus of the groups are, hopefully not just complaining about not seeing their grandchildren. It would be nice to have others in your situation to identify with, but to also make a happy productive life including activities with your group.

On another note, there are grandparents who do need to organize and meet together for information when they have been given foster custody of their grandchildren via CPS (Child Protective Services). It is a corrupt system in which many blood related family members have had to fight the system to save their grandchild from adoption by strangers, often taking years!
Those grandparent groups become activists fighting a corrupt system and fighting for the best home for their grandchildren.

I don't think this is off-topic because grandparents do have a great concern for their grandchildren, with very few legal rights even when the children are with an intact mother and father.

It all boils down to one thing: Grandparents have NO say whatsoever when it comes to how often they can see their grandkids. None.

Get used to it, no matter how well educated and otherwise wonderful either of you are.

My husband had dementia along with cancer, I did not allow him to drive, he agreed. We would pick up the grandchildren and take them out for the day, he was were never left alone with the grands. They did not stay overnight, as I could not secure everything 24/7. Initially, I had a meeting with his children explained what was going on and we came to that agreement, as long as I was there and driving, we were good.

I understand your children's concern, you appear to be in denial, he should not be driving at all, let alone with the grands in the car.

Just sounds like everyday problems 99% families have...however, the important thing is YOU see a difference in hubby & only you can do something about it. For example, take him to Neurologist. Don’t let him drive. You can’t control other members of family. If you’re concerned, as long as hubby will be retiring & home more, the good news is you have time to plan for your future. You make time to see Elder law Atty . Get Wills , POA & Health proxies in order. Good luck & hugs 🤗

What does Donald Trump has to do with this? Leave the POTUS alone. Im so tired of the bashing and bullying. Its so ignorant....ijs

it is probably not a good idea for him to drive the children around. Your adult children are scared for their children's safety. I know your pain. I don't think you are overbearing at all. I think you are seeing too much of your kids. You should go out into the world and build a life for yourselves, minus your children. Let them come to you when they want to, if they want to. There are plenty of people out there who need you.

Has the OP been back?

Alg66:
What did that reference re Trump at Wharton have to do with your problems?
I read your post three times. I find that you are overbearing, dramatic and controlling. You bragged about your husbands and your smarts. Your kids have more smarts!
Your children have told you that
their kids can no longer car ride with you and Gramps. Respect that. They are doing what a parent does- protect their kids!
You mentioned you see them often. Be happy and grateful you see them at all.
Enjoy whatever time you spend with your children and grandchildren. No one is promised tomorrow!

This is a great post to remind those of us with children how things can go terribly wrong.

We must have good communication, which certainly includes listening to one another. When we speak, we don’t get to shout one another down. It doesn’t work that way.

Common courtesy and respect goes a long way! Respect has to be given to be received. Otherwise, our children will shut down or become frustrated and angry.

What gets me is the SW daughter "withdraws". Of all people she should be able to handle this type of situation. Yes, initial shock but she should be able to "regroup".

I think what maybe going on here is the Mother is trying to have it her way and not listening. The son is not being nasty, he is trying to explain why its not happening and Mom isn't listening. Daughter is not withdrawling, she has just realized that Mom is not listening so why keep trying to explain how she feels.

You are going to need family more than ever. I am not sure if u fully understand where your husbands journey is going to take you. You might get to the point u cannot care for him anymore. So don't alienate ur kids by wanting it "your way". If the parents want to be there with the kids then so be it. You don't want children around if DH is having a bad day. What would u do if he became paranoid, screaming and hollering and u were alone with the kids. A scary situation for children and u too.

I think there is no compromise here. Its your kids way or not at all.

Ask them why they will not discuss matters with you and then see if they will sit down with a mediator present and go through their concerns.

The more you make your children feel guilty the more you will chase them off, which is a shame because they most likely are as upset as you are and you could comfort each other. Stop feeling like this isn’t effecting them. It does. It’s their father.

They don’t know how to react to your expectations. So they are avoiding you or getting angry. Both of those are normal reactions to being pressured.

Didn’t you want them to be safe when they were young? They want the same for their children. For God’s sake, tell them that you lost your head and over reacted. That may make an impression on them to become closer to you if you show some humility instead of making demands.

Showing remorse and humility can go a long way! Tell them that you love them. Show them that you appreciate that they are responsible parents. Complement them instead of criticize.

Don’t put your children in the position of being your therapist because they aren’t. They are your children. Speak to a therapist to voice your deepest concerns.

I truly do hope this works out for all of you. I am not trying to lay a guilt trip on you. Many people have made errors in judgment while in a stressful situation.

I wish you well. Let us know how you you are coping. People do care. We are only trying to understand why you feel as you do.

Yes, it is a difficult situation and it’s okay if you fell apart but it’s time to focus and regroup. Your husband and children deserve that. So do you! You deserve to be at peace knowing that you are doing the best you can instead of living in this anguish.

You can turn this around if you really want to make an honest attempt at restoring your relationship with them and let them know that their feelings are validated.

You feel as if you aren’t being heard. They feel the same way. They heard you but don’t agree with everything and that’s okay. Who agrees on everything? Listen to your children. Listen without interrupting them. You will learn a lot.

I have friends that ask me how do I get my children to speak to me because their children are distant with them. My answer is always the same. I tell them that I listen to them.

Do we always agree? Absolutely not. But I listen nevertheless. They will be more likely to listen to you if it is a two way street but don’t expect them to agree to everything. Compromise is give and take.

Understand that your grandchildren’s safety is of the utmost importance. No compromising on their part there. Give in!

The safety of their children is their first responsibility. You mention them not hugging you. Perhaps your hysterical crying was off putting to them. I personally am not a hugger in overly emotional situations. I tend to back away.

I would be interested in hearing the other side of this story.

Unless your husband took an actually driving test to evaluate his responses to situations on the road, he should not be driving. Your children's reluctance to allow your grandchildren to be alone with you could be the fear that he will drive with them in the car. The stages of alzheimer and its progression is different for each individual. Your children need to be educated on this horrible disease and be reassured that your husband will not be driving with the grandchildren in the car. I saw the progression with my own father. At first it was a slow progression, but as the disease progressed the later stages advanced more rapidly. In one year he went from the beginning stages to where he needed to be placed in a nursing home and not knowing who his children were. I see your children are willing to compromise about visits with the grandchildren, but are you compromising on your end about the driving issue? Your reluctance to not allow your husband to drive with the grandchildren in the car is why your children are holding off or limiting these visits.

Being smart is not a defense against dementia.  For you to insist it is smacks of denial, and I can see why your kids are shaking their heads at this.  

I do not know what state you are in, but every renewal driving test I have heard of is eye sight only. At most you must come in person.  They renewed my grandmothers when she was 93.  Crazy.  Nothing about reaction time, judgement, memory.   Again, denial on your part.

Given that they see  you a lot, I do not know what the story with the retirement party is, but I am certain they have their reasons.

I strongly suggest you join a support group for relatives/caregivers of Alz people.

I refused to let my MIL take my kids ANYWHERE once I found out she was not putting them in carseats or seatbelts. She actually sat in the front seat w/o a seatbelt herself and held the baby and said "Oh, you fusspot! I'm holding her tight".

OK--a 170 lb woman going 60 mph is going to continue going 60 mph with a LOT of force when the driver hits the brakes and guess what's "protecting" her? My 15 lb baby.

I literally took the baby out of her arms, took the other kids out also and told her she could NOT go anywhere with them if they wouldn't abide my wishes as per car safety.

She called me a "princess' and we never made up over that kerfuffle. My SIL's kids got to go with gma and gpa all the time b/c SIL wasn't so fussy.

If there were sleepovers (and there weren't many) I made sure she knew this was one fight I would go to the mat over.

Perhaps you suggest that they come to your house and you drive or they do activities where you can drop them off and go pick them up. I have 14 grands and we follow the rules of any particular family---no matter how difficult or 'crazy' we may think. We are just 'borrowing' these babies and we know it.

Unless they regularly came for sleepovers before and that stopped abruptly with the diagnosis then there could be a lot of other reasons for some of this - kids that age are no doubt busy with school, friends and extracurricular activities and have their own opinions about how they want to spend their time. Stop pushing your agenda and maybe there will be less conflict, be satisfied they still allow visits at all.

There’s two sides to every story. My friend will not allow her mother to drive her children anywhere and will not let her be alone with them either. Her mother is 82 and doesn’t understand why.

The reasons: Mother left a loaded handgun out on her nightstand. With a toddler and two other children under age eight in the house. When confronted, she denied it and lied, said the cleaning lady must have done it.

She also drives and has no business doing so. Runs through stop signs, hits curbs, and has always been a nervous driver.

She is profoundly deaf and won’t wear hearing aids, and could not hear if the kids needed her.

Even with all this, she cries and pouts about why her mean daughter won’t let her take the grandkids. It’s better to let her complain than risk their kids’ lives.

The parents have the final say on what their kids can/can’t do with grandparents.

It's one of the hardest things in the world to be shut out, to be accused - or feel you're being accused - and the other party won't discuss it with you, even though you don't know what you did wrong in the first place.

Been there. More than once. Sometimes I *was* in the wrong, but had no idea of how much pain I'd caused (or that I'd caused any pain at all). Occasionally, it was mistaken identity or another misunderstanding. Hurts, either way.

Sadly, the only thing I know to do is to give the other party space and time - even if they're close family.

As for driving, well, tests don't always tell the whole story. My FIL was reported to the DMV - twice. He passed with flying colors - twice. He was unsafe, but took tests well. It took a change of docs to get him to stop driving.

We all knew he was unsafe, but my MIL remained somewhat willing to trust him until FIL's new doctor put her foot down. Perhaps your children, who are not around their Dad as much as you are, can see some changes much more clearly.

My MIL was a lousy driver. We have always wondered how she never got into an accident. She drove really close to the shoulder. My SIL would not allow her kids in the car with my MIL. She had no Dementia.

Please come back and tell us how things work out.

I am terribly sorry that your husband has been diagnosed with this disease. It’s devastating and frightening to hear bad news. As a wife I get it that you are hurting.

As far as your children not hugging you, I am sure that you realize disturbing news can be shocking and takes time to process.

Please don’t criticize them harshly for this. It doesn’t matter if your daughter is a social worker. This is personal. It is her dad that is the patient. Of course it effects her and certainly isn’t the same as a client that she deals with.

You speak of your son becoming angry. It’s the same situation as your daughter. This is his dad. He needs time to process and understand his emotions. Give him time.

Now, about your grandchildren. My mom once sent me to the store with my Uncle. My word! He drove up the exit ramp on the interstate. Thank God, I was quick to tell my uncle to put the car in reverse and drive away from going the wrong way on the interstate.

Fortunately there were no cars behind us and we could back down. Do you see what I am saying? We would have had a head on collision going the wrong way on a high speed interstate?

I instructed my uncle to bring me home. I marched into my house as a young teenager and told my mom to never send me off with him again. She never did! I would not have ever gotten into a car with him again!

It’s unreasonable for you to expect your children to allow your husband to be responsible to their children.

I have to side with the kids. If he is in the beginning of ALZ then you don’t know what he is or is not capable of doing behind the wheel. My uncle was also in the beginning of ALZ and he was driving and another couple was in the car with him. They got into an accident and the couple DIED!! My uncle lived. But he was in the beginning of ALZ!! Also my own father was having problems with his hip and he drove us to a restaurant many years ago for Thanksgiving. I was in the backseat with my husband and I SCREAMED at my father to SLOW down. We were coming to a red light and he almost slammed into the car ahead of us. Because I screamed, he slammed on the brakes and we didn’t hit the car. When we got to the restaurant I asked him what happened. He said his leg gave out. I said I’m driving us home after dinner. He said ok and he NEVER drove again. But I took my kids to see him and my mother all the time. But I would have never let him take my kids in the car. He was 75 when this happened. My Uncle was 72 when he got in the car accident.

An hour and 20 minutes is a long way away during school's in session.

Or, at the age the grandchildren are at, can you accept that they might have activities and friends as a priority, and this would be "normal"?

Can you accept and respect your adult children's decisions (without question) or without making them explain to you? Accept compromises, or accept a "No"?

Would it at all be "normal", in a meeting (with doctor in a professional setting?) for anyone, to not jump up and hug you?

You sound like a loving grandma, really wanting more. But sometimes we expect too much, don't get what we want or need from our family. Always be ready to give, give, give to your grandchildren without expecting anything in return. I think you will suffer less from the "normal" differences in expectations between generations.

There does not need to be anything wrong with you or your husband for the children's (g-children's) needs to be different than your wants and deep desire for a relationship with them. For a Christmas gift, consider giving a cute sleepover
sleeping bag for the many sleepovers they will be having at their friends homes.
It is just a "normal" stage of life, not a reflection on you or your husband, imo.

If you are going to be upset, 1) keeping it to yourself, 2) appreciating the times you do have with them will go a long way to prevent pushing them away.

As a grandmother I just want to say....shame on them for not visiting you more!

It was explained to me that with ALZ there are memory pathways that die (for a better word, there is more to it) so you have to make new ones. Ex: if u brush your teeth right handed, brush left handed, new pathway. Thats why the mind games are good, each one is different so makes a new pathway.

I don't care what stage it is, a Dementia is a Dementia and like said, unpredictable. My feeling about driving once there is a diagnosis, the doctor should contact the DMV. It may have been a good day/ time when husband took his test. They can "showtime". How is he later in the day, early evening? Is there sundowning.

I think its a real shame they aren't coming to Dads retirement. They are just hurting him.

I think you need to except you will not be able to have them overnight or in a car with GDad driving. You may want to call and see if there is a way that you can get together for Christmas. Meet at ur house, theirs or a family restaurant. If they don't seem to be susceptible, explain calmly, that you want to Dad to enjoy the kids as long as he can. Enjoy his family as long as he can. Your SW daughter should be the one who understands
this.

I think there is more going on here than just Dad's diagnosis. Maybe ur children would meet with one of your therapists. He/she could get their side of the story to help find a mid ground. Not sure how u can solve anything without understanding both sides.

You post gives me a very uncomfortable "feeling".
You state "My son gets nasty" and "my daughter withdraws". You describe a lot of problems here, and the least of it is your husband driving. I agree with them. With his diagnosis he should not be driving and nor should his Grandchildren be with him if he does. That comes from someone whose brother chose to ignore warning signs and had a dreadful accident as a result; was diagnosed in the aftermath of that accident.
What I do see is a troubled future. First of all, there is nothing to be done about that. You have already been to two therapists whose ideas have not worked. NOW I am concerned about YOU and about your Husband. You say that he has just retired. That would mean he has worked into his 70s. I am going to make an assumption here that you are comfortably situated financially. You have described a problematic relationship in which you cannot communicate with EITHER your son or your daughter. NEITHER! and that is very concerning right now. So I am suggesting you have bigger fish waiting to be fried here and I worry for your future with the son, the daughter (either/or) or worse yet BOTH in charge of your future through POA or Trustees of Trust or guardianship. They sound, from your description of their refusal to communicate with you, as though they might cause a good deal of trouble.
SO what I am suggesting is A) that is their choice for their children. Fine. Let it be. Ask how you can visit or see the grandkids, accept that and move on.
B) take care of your husband AND yourself now and do so with great care. See an elder law attorney. Get will and trust in place at once. Get POA for you to care for your husband and be CERTAIN that neither your son nor your daughter succeeds if you are unable. Have a fiduciary appointed to take on this work and be paid for it. They would have YOUR interests in mind. I am afraid of your Son with his anger and your daughter with her fear. If the two of them are the choices I feel you and your husband are in danger.
Sorry if I overstep bounds, and if I have misjudged them from what you have said here, but we hear so many disasterous fighting siblings warring over parent's money and "well being" well before they are dead that I am now afraid of these two, and what their "failure to communicate" could mean, and could mean for your future.
Get thee and thy husband to an Elder Law Attorney as soon as you can. Protect yourselves. You are the Lioness at the gate now, and in our 70s (I am there, too) we are aging Lionesses waiting for those that prey upon the aging.

Your post tugs at my heart. I can so appreciate and understand your desire to immerse yourselves in time with your grands while you have that ability but I also completely understand your children's need to protect their young children and that is part of the key. Your grandchildren are at an age where they are very aware but not able to understand the big picture, nor should they need to and their parents are trying to shield them which has put you at opposite ends rather than working partners. I can only imagine how scary it might be for one of your grands to be riding in the car with Grandpa when he suddenly doesn't know how to get home and this as you probably know often happens suddenly. Last year our neighbor's parents were staying in their condo dog sitting as they so often did, they don't live far away and were here regularly. Dad went out to Dunkin Donuts with is just around the corner, something he did regularly and never came back. Mom got really scared when he had been gone too long at when it had been 45 min or so several neighbors went out looking for him and the police were called. He was fine but had gotten lost coming back and was found a few towns away. Imagine if his 8 year old Grand were in the car when Grandpa suddenly didn't know how to get home not to mention was probably distracted trying to figure it out.

Why your Grands parents don't want to tell you this is their concern I'm not sure. I can see why they might want to spare your husband but either they don't feel comfortable being honest with you either or perhaps they think they have but haven't been direct enough that you heard it. I'm not sure, maybe each time you ask to do something with the grands it's with your husband there as well and they come up with excuses in an effort to save his feelings? Whatever the case I would suggest you, just you, try sitting down with each set of parents (your child and their spouse or sig other) to tell them what you have told us here, your desire to spend time with grandchildren while GD can still fully participate, make memories for all, listen when they tell you their concerns and parameters don't discount it, consider they might be seeing things you aren't and give them the credit for being parents and children at the same time, imagine the position your children are in. Not only are they dealing with the decline of their father, they are also dealing with the best interest of their children and another parent who also has just as much say in what happens with those children. It may be a spouse who is most hesitant and laying down the law, right or wrong they have that right. If you become more of a partner in trying to meet everyone's needs and openly share concerns and info (I doubt not sharing medical updates is helping them feel secure) you may find a way to make those memories you so want. Tothill suggestion about going to them and going places, doing things with them in their area, attending every school event you can. Maybe when their parent's see more interaction and feel confident their wishes will be abide'd by as well as feel like they are being kept up to date on the full status of Dad's capabilities and that you aren't going to let him drive when they aren't looking or step out and leave one of the kids with him for a few hours if they are concerned about that, they will loosen up a bit. Once you have laid the groundwork maybe suggest the family come to visit your house and let the grands stay overnight with you while the parents get a night alone (you could even pay for the room) but not as far away in case something happens. Again I wouldn't suggest it before rebuilding some trust and understanding but when the time is right you exhibiting an understanding and appreciation for their feelings rather than simply trying to convince them they are wrong may help a lot. My guess is you may find one family more responsive than the other, at least to start, we all need to move at our own pace.

When my first grand-nephew was born, I picked up him from his parents on Saturday mornings and took him to my parents' home for babysitting even though my father had vascular dementia. Our weekly routine was after a few hours at my parents' home, I took the baby back to his home for the afternoon, put him to bed for the night, then stayed until his parents returned from date night. The only time I saw my father truly happy during the couple decades of his life was when he was playing with his great-grandchildren. Hanging on my bedroom wall right now is a photo collage of my father playing with his great-grandchildren over 10 years. Dad had those experiences with his great-grandchildren because I gave them to him. I supervised those visits and I _never_ left him alone with the children, not for one single minute. The children might not have understood why I made everyone go into the house with me while I fixed snacks, but they went with me just the same. When the oldest great was 6 and there was a new infant great and two terrible twos, I started babysitting at my house (across the street from my parents) and only took the kids to my parents to play in the yard. When the oldest was 11 (and the youngest was an infant again), I stopped taking the kids over at all.

The reason this worked and Dad got to have those meaningful experiences with his great-grandchildren was I acknowledged dementia had broken his brain and made Dad unpredictable. My mother was Dad's advocate, I was responsible for the children's emotional and physical safety and their parents could trust me to act in the children's best interest. If Dad started having a bad day, I could always just take the children and leave; and sometimes I did.

One person alone cannot both deal with a dementia rant and protect and comfort young children during that rant. Your children are right. When you continue to advocate for how your husband's dementia really isn't that bad, you are probably reducing their ability to have faith in your capacity to protect the grandchildren. I'm so sorry dementia has brought this limitation into your life.

I'm very sorry for your husband's diagnosis and the way your children have treated you and him. Not only does "education" mean nothing to this disease (as Jessica40 posted), but education also doesn't mean one internalizes good ethics or morals or empathy. I'm not at all questioning the quality of their upbringing. I believe God gives us free will. We raise our children to the best of our knowledge and abilities. When they are adults, they make their own choices. I am speaking from my own imperfect experiences within my own family.

Other commenters are correct in saying you two have no power or rights in this situation. But you can give your children less control over your happiness by not romanticizing your relationship with your grandkids and not "wanting" it so much. Put your energies into other affirming and supportive people and groups, activities, interests, charities, volunteerism, learning experiences, etc. Consider researching worthy organizations to bequeath your estate. Also, remember that this may not be a permanent state of affairs between you and your children...people and situations do have the capacity to change and improve and heal.

I do "get" their concern about the driving...just too big of a risk for them. No one knows when the "first incident" might occur.

They are treating you very poorly and thus you need boundaries. You don't need to announce anything to them. Just don't act desperate about seeing your grandkids. Keep their birthdays and holidays in mind with cards and small gifts and phone calls. I wish you peace in your hearts and healing in your family circle!