Can a Power of Attorney refuse to allow family members to visit their mother who is competent and requesting visits?

Sounds like POA is on a power trip to me. Why can't the whole family sit down and talk about this stuff? I'm the POA for my mother-in-law but that only works with her money at the bank I thought. I pay the bills etc, but can't imagine having the power to say when and where she goes. The POA could clean out her bank account though and make your lives miserable if you don't open up a dialogue with that person. Maybe you need a disinterested third party to mediate.

I don't understand why - if Mom is competent - she has someone acting as her POA at all. She should revoke it. Simple notarized from (available free on the web). Easy enough to redo it later - perhaps to a different person?

Great idea! Mediation was considered.

After much discussion the two brothers suggested mediation to the POA. The POA stated that if the two other brothers showed up for a meeting at "his" attorney's office to workk out details on returning their mother home they could then visit the mother.

Note: the information from the POA prior to the mothers visit was vastly inaccurate with regard to her abilities when visiting. The brothers do not feel they can base any detailed planning on the POA's information and are concerned the mothers doctor may be receiving the same apparent misiniformation. The POA's report on her abilities was far less than what was observed.

The two sons responded that if the POA wanted their input in developing a detailed plan, and their assistance to impliment it they needed::
1. To have the mother visit for 2-3 weeks so that they could observe her day to day and formulate a clearer picture of what she could and could not do.
2. At the end of the visit go with her to a doctor visit for a discussion.
3. Afterwhich they would be happy to sit down with the POA, with the mother in attendance, and work out the details of a plan.

The POA refused. He advises they cannot see their mother, cannot talk to her, cannot go with her to her doctor, and that the mother cannot attend the meeting.

The two brothers then in desperation stated ... ok..... they would attend the meeting but wouldn't be informed enough to sign off on any detailed plan. None the less they would show up, listen, and ask questions. In return they wanted assurance from the POA that when the meeting was over that they could take their mother for an extended visit (as he had orginally advised if attended the meeting they could visit her).

The POA refused. Ranted about how the two brothers could out vote him and he and his family would loose and he wasn't going to allow that. He states that the two brothers and the mother are against him.

It appeares the POA wants to have a meeting, tell the brothers how it was going to be, get them to agree and commit to help with "his" plan (which the POA has advised he doesn't have??), and spring it on the mother.

The POA continues to make comments he has the power and authority to deny visits and control her.

In frustation the brothers advised him to put together a plan by himself and make it happen. The mother has advised him she wants to go home and they feel that as her agent he is to make it happen.

In the meantime they want to visit their mother and reminded him she was requested visits with them.

Again the POA refuses

The brothers are upset and confused as to the motive of the POA. After all it is suppose to be about what is in the mothers best interest.

Mariesmom.... I agree with you. If mom is with it mentally what is all the POA stuff about.

Changing the POA is perhaps this is what the current POA fears. Perhaps he is concerned about what additional information mom will share.... She does have some slight memory issues.... maybe he wants to keep her until she is incompetent.... perhaps she has signed documents the brothers don't know about and the POA doesn't want those documents nulled.
Who knows.
I'd think if she wants to see them or visit them or whatever it should just happen.

Perhaps POA wants to wait till mom gets drained of whatever money she has. I hope not.

My question is still.... what is the reasonable action that the two brothers should take to see their mother.
The home she is at the mother owns. So to see her the would be on property owned by the mother.
She is competent.
Do they physically go to the house and if refused entry by the other family members living there enter anyway?

It sounds as if your mother is being held hostage, to be honest. Get Adult Services involved because of your concern for her safety and well-being. Call the police and get them to do a health and welfare check on HER. Request that they see and speak to her. Tell Adult Services what you've told everyone here and let them intervene. They're supposed to protect your mother from abuse and what you're describing sure sounds like it fits the bill.

Thanks for the reply.

Hate to take it to that level.

However the brothers are running out of options. That is why we came here to post and see if there were options we were not aware of, ideas someone else had tried and failed or had success with.

They want to be reasonable.

It just seems simple.

If she is competent she can decide for herself.

I'd think they should be able to just drive up, knock on the door and see her or take her out of the house if that is what she would like.

Will Adult Services advise the outcome of their involvment/investigation if called?

A power of attorney gives the agent the power to make financial decisions, but those don't include restricting who can visit the person. Only through a court-ordered conservatorship could someone have that kind of power. If you or your brothers ask to speak to your mother directly and are refused, it would be grounds to ask the police department to do a welfare check on your mother, and to get adult protective services involved.

Of course Adult Services would let you know. You're her family. You have a right to know what is going on. You have a right to see your mother. She has a right to see you. She's competent, it's HER house and she's being told what she can and cannot do? That's being held hostage, not being cared for. Your brother needs to be awakened to that and it will take someone who has an absolute right to demand, someone whose authority he can't question, to wake his fanny up. Do it now before it's too late to do anything.

I had an aunt whose children had POA over literally everything in her life. It even gave them the right to decide her personal relationships. I think that they had convinced her that she needed their protection. No, they needed the secrecy. By the time she died, anything of value that she'd owned was gone. She'd given it all away to them, but they still ignored her. A couple of her nieces found her sitting in the floor on evening, taking her clothes off and putting them back on. She had several pain patches on her at once. And no, she wasn't taken to the hospital until a few days after, of course, the pain patches had been removed. I would imagine that they wanted some time for the meds to wear off before anyone actually examined her. She died less than a month later. And this woman who wasn't illiterate signed a new POA with an "x" less than two weeks before she died. Only that one didn't mention anything about her personal relationships. Gee, does it seem to you that they didn't want anyone to know about that little provision in the first one?

And how do I know about the POAs? In this state, it's public record. It's all easily available at no charge on the county's website. Frankly, an evening of combing through scanned images of POAs and deeds online left me sick to my stomach. At the time, I lived in another state and wasn't here. I used to call her, but her hearing got so bad that she couldn't hear me on the telephone any longer. I am my own mother's caregiver and couldn't leave her to go and see for myself what was going on. I wish I could have. You have no idea how much I do.

Mayasbop Thank YOU for sharing. I think the brothers are worried that since their mother is competent that when the APS talk with her that she will actually cover for the POA and his family 1. because no matter what they have done they are family and she won't want them to get into legal trouble 2. Out of fear of retaleation 3. the POA has her convienced that she has no other choice but to live with him or begin to sell her property and move into a nursing home.
The two days the brothers had with her was eye opening for them....not only the revealing of bits of what had been going on for 11 months but the level of fear and hopelessness in their mother.
However if the brothers were to make a report and provided information of other family members and friends that visited with their mom the two days they had her and snips of what they are aware of from other limited exposure .... maybe APS woudl dig deeper and not just walk away is mom isn't the most forth coming. ???

Has anyone had direct experience with APS?
If mom isn't the most forthcoming, for the reason mentioned above, how will APS handle the complaint?
Would APS continue with the investigation and contact others that the brothers listed as having knowledge even if mom was not forth coming?

APS will have experience in dealing with elders like your mother. If you and others who were with your mother over those two days were to speak to APS, they will have a better idea of what they will encounter when they go to do a health and welfare check on your mother. It's their job to investigate and to take any action that they think is necessary to protect your mom. They have the authority. If there is ANY suspicion of an elder being abused, they can't just walk away. They can also get copies of the actual POA to see what it says. They also have the authority to speak to your mother ALONE. They know that if someone is afraid, the victim is going to try to hide the truth in order to protect themselves from being a target too.

Take any and all names of folks that your mother spoke to with you to APS, along with phone numbers and addresses, so that APS can contact them and get a clearer picture of just why you are so concerned. If you have any e-mails or any letters, take them with you as well. It seems that no matter what you do, your brother rejects even his own conditions that he demands of you. You have witnesses as to what has been said by your mom. Please don't wait any longer.

Mayasbop Thank you and all the others that have taken time to respond. The information has and is being shared with the brothers and hopefully they will proceed.
They have witnesses to the refusals, the mother sharing her fears, concerns and desires, etc....
Have to pray that the APS rep is experienced enough to pursue the matter fully, contact those they might list, perhaps even get the mother away from the POA for several days (to stay with the other brothers) and re interview her where she might feel safer.
Again thanks to all. If anyone thinks of anything else or has had direct experience with APS please share any info you can that might be meaningful.

Yep. Adult services is the ticket especially if your mother is not incompetent. Even if she does cover for the family that is taking care of her, it will be documented with protective services. They will get the truth. It's all how they ask the questions and they ask alot of them. Let you mom speak with them and if she is comfortable she will respond truthfully and without being coericed by anyone.

The phone call to the Adult Protective Services Unit of your local Dept. of Social Services is the first step. I am very familiar with APS as I have worked in a DSS and I was actually referred to APS by my husband's Adult Children. The APS have Social Workers that investigate the alleged abuse, neglect of a vulnerable adult. The SW will speak to the alleged abused person in a way that is none threatening. They will not/cannot tell the family who referred the APS worker for the visit. The APS case will be opened and hopefully within 30 days negotiations can begin. I hope this has helped. Good luck and thanks for advocating for the vulnerable adults.

I forgot to mention that the "alleged" neglect of my husband was "unsubstantiated" by the SW investigation. At first, I was very hurt when the SW arrived at my door and apologized for having to come in for the investigation. But when she had first hand knowledge of the care that was needed for my "high anxiety" husband that had a stroke last year, she spoke to my husband briefly and then left.

Thanks AGAIN! Everyone is great to share and continue to share on this matter!!!

How long does the average APS investigation take to conclude once it is started. In our state we always hear that the SWers are over worked with to many clients and have problems getting the bases covered. We are sure they are dedicated but it is what it is. Probably the same problem in every state.
Will they continue the investigation if the mother isn't interested or attempts to cover things up but just not being forth coming? The brothers feel that if the APS goes beyond a visit with their mother they will find there is reason for concern and further investigation. But...will APS contact those folks if the mother isn't interested???

We were turned in on Sept 7th and they came to our home on the 9th to speak with my mother without our knowledge. The woman finally called me at the end of September to say that we were investigated and everything was fine and we were cleared. So all in all, 3 weeks for us.

Maryland State law requires an investigation and either opening or closing a case within 30 calendar days from the time the APS is reported to the DSS APS Unit of the Adult Services Unit. My investigation report was finalized with the unsubstantiated closing of the case within the 30 days via a letter from the SW that came out for the visit. I would think that each State has APS guidelines that are required to be followed. Unfortunately, there is no choice in the matter to accept or deny the SW investigation when an APS investigation is submitted. The alleged vulnerable adult and the person(s) that is/are the alleged abuser/neglector must be interviewed.

This is criminal behaviour. It is emotional abuse. In Canada one would seek redress through the police.

The person to whom the POA was granted (technically referred to as an "attorney in fact") is legally bound to have a fiduciary relationship with the grantor of the power. That means, among other things, that the grantee of the power is obligated to act in the best interests of the grantor. The grantee has no right to withhold any information from the grantor nor can that person make any secret profit from the use of the POA. For example the grantee is not allowed to sign a rental agreement obligating the Grantor to pay more than a reasonable rent considering the circumstances. The grantee has no right to hold the grantor prisoner or to limit visitation. The first thing to do is to revoke the existing power. The next thing is to talk to a local lawyer about this. The matter is not complex but you need a lawyer to guide you through a technical matter.

can a P.O.A force one into a nursing home for a short time when the said person has the failure to thrive to gain weight to have surgery

My hubby and I have POA, well hubby does and I support him of his grandfather. his grandfather does NOT want to see his brother, if he did we would welcome him in our home. but one day he showed up, the brother, and wanted to come him, grandpa said no, so hubby said no. The brother started pounding on windows and the brother finally called police. Grandpa is not completly with he mentally, but he was able to tell the police his name and stated he did NOT want to see his brother and they made the brother leave. So if these 2 brothers call the law and the law asked the mom if she wants to see the brothers and she says yes i believe they would escort the brothers in. But the problem I see with this is first the pice would be there and visit would be short and then what the poa might do to mother after they leave. But if they ever have doubt about he well being they could for sure call the law, although none of us like the law in our business, some times it is necessary. Hope you guys get to see your mom. To the person who said they ahve poa to take care of mother in laws billed, they are different types poa's. If he has a durable power oit covers everything, including deciding who can visit sadly.

Good luck and hope it works out.

Allysia, Thank you for your post.
I think the brothers hate the idea of bringing conflict to a head by showing up with the police...it is just sort of in your face. Yet besides calling APS it may be the only option that will allow them to visit her, providing the Sheriff asks the mother and the mother is willing to stand up for herself and say "yes I want to see them".
During her short 2 day visit she expressed strong emotions about her concerns of how she would be treated upon her return to the POA. Enough of a display off and on throughout her visit that one had to wonder if the concerns she shared were the complete story.
Balancing seeing her and not wanting to do something to make her treatment even worse is an obvious concern.
The motive behind the POA's refusal to allow the brothers to communicate with the mother is distrubing. The POA and his family's controlling role when the mother is reportably competent is alarming to me.
The idea of perhaps calling the Sheriff and giving him a heads up before going to the home to attempt a visit is well worth consideration,..as is calling APS....or perhaps doing both. Something needs to be done since conversations with the POA have proven fruitless.

Having a durable POA doesn't make you warden of the person who is the grantor. That is ridiculous. There may be a provision in the POA, but if the mother is competent and wants to see her sons and their families, she can revoke it. Why in the world would she need someone who has taken the role of guardian if she is legally competent? Did she mean to give POA that kind of power or was it a provision that she wasn't truly aware of?

Calling APS is the first step. Her bits and pieces of information and the fact that she was scared to return should have warranted a call to APS before she returned to her own home, because practically speaking, he's living in the house that SHE owns.

Today is Tuesday. Call APS now. She's living in fear of what can happen unless she does exactly what POA wants and no one should have to live in fear of another person, especially when that person is their own son. She needs YOUR help, so get on the telephone with APS and get the ball rolling today. Let APS call the sheriff. As a matter of fact, if POA resists APS, THEY'LL call the police. They can do what needs to be done to protect her, but they can't do it without a complaint from YOU.

Mayasbop Thank you.... will relay to brothers...believe they are on board.

I'm sorry if I sound so insistent, but I've seen what can and does happen when everyone is afraid of stepping on a POA's toes. It's not pretty.

I could be wrong but I think the brothers are concerned their mother will not be forthcoming negatively impacting the efforts APS puts forth, about APS not doing a complete investigation, how the POA and his family will handle the mother during any investigation, and an outcome representive of a less than through investigation by APS. However nothing positive is going to happen as things stand so contacting APS is reasonable.
I may be wrong but I doubt the brothers are overly concerned with stepping on the POA's toes. :)
Thanks again! I beileve the brothers have or are proceeding.

Follow up and advise sought. Adult Services have been contacted. Nothing "appears" to of resulted. Unsure if AS worker even talked with mother. Have heard Sheriff talked with wife of the POA. Appears no "real" investigation may of occured.
POA continues to refuse family phone conversations with mother, or visits. He advised that the mothers condition has taken a massive downward turn since the 2day visit with her sons.
Both brothers went to visit their mom unannounced. The mother was sharp, able to walk throughout the home without physical assistance. In short was appeared in as good functioning shape as the weeked before when she visited her extended family weeks ago.
She asked to go home or to their home. She accepted offer from them to come with them to their home and stay for an extended time. POA refused and stated she could not leave.
Deep dark bruises were noticed and viewed by sons that went from mothers shoulder to wrist on both arms. POA offered no explanation. POA commented that the doctor had been called but she had not seen the doctor.
Police were called by the brothers. Police reviewed all documents shown by POA and advised him documents were over finances and did not give him power of her as a person. Other documents were not legal documents. Asked if POA had mother declaired incomipent. POA stated no and at no time did he assert that she was incompitent.
Police viewed bruses but asked no questions of mother or POA. He did ask brothrs if they were making allegations. They apparently advised they wanted the officer to see the bruising and do what was appropriate.
The officer asked the mother if she wanted to go home and she said yes, gave the address of her home and advised him that the home she was currently in was also property owned by her.
The POA's daughter stated that she wanted the brother out of her home and off the property. Mom advised the girl that mom owned the property not her. The girl stated that she lived there to, as a renter (no rent is paid) and she had her rights to order the brothers out.
POA threated the police by stating that if he allowed the mother to leave that he would be responsible if anything went wrong.
In the end the police stepped away and talked with her superior. He returned and stated that they did not want to be involved and suggested civil action. The brother asked what civil action. The mother is compitent and she should be the one seeking legal action and can't because she can't leave. officer mentioned going for custody. Brother asked why would they and how could they get custody of someone of age who is compitent? Officer stated he was just doing what his superviser told him to do. He suggested the brothers leave since they had been asked too. When the brothers stated that their mother owned the property and had already told the officer she didn't want them to leave ... the officer said that complicated things but he suggested they leave and he could do nothing.
The officer commented that he tried to reach another officer about the bruising but that he was involved in another arrest so he could discuss it with him. He would discuss the matter with him when he was available.
The brothers left without their mom.
Ok..... so now what??? Any solid suggestions?

In my personal opinion, since the POA has no right to keep mom isolated but does so over her objections it has been established that one of two crimes has been committed 1) false imprisonment or 2) kidnapping. If it were my mom, I would go to the district attorney and let it be known that non-attorney deputies are simply out of their realm in interpreting sophisticated criminal laws. Good luck and best wishes.