Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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I am concerned about sexual relations in mom's Memory Care unit. I see there are no policies and am aware at times this may bring happiness to some residents. However, for a person with Alzheimer's, and not in their right mind, how do you know if this is proper? Mom has been "caught" with another man in her room. Am I being the overprotected Daughter or trying to preserve her dignity? She is 90 years old.

Elder Law Sex Skilled Nursing Facility

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Sue,

I had to have a conversation with the RN on duty about this subject a couple days after my Mom entered the nursing home. My Mom told me a man came into her room during the night to "visit" Mom's roomate.

The RN was very nice. She explained these "visits" were pretty common in facilities. But, the staff in this facilitiy was supposed to be alert and on the lookout for these situations. Of course married couples or couples roomed together were allowed privacy and private time.

The RN went on to explain that Dementia patients like my Mom's roomate may be consenting during the "visit" but shortly after may have a completely different interpretation of the event. So, the staff did their best to keep an eye on things.

Three months after my Mom entered the facility she became a man chaser. So yes I understand. The woman who raised me and made my teenage life miserable was out of control. The woman who always drilled to me "your reputation, our reputation" was now like a boy crazy teenager on steroids...It took me a while to wrap my head around that one.

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No you needed to be protective. Not to scare you from what my husband who works in the field says nursing home is moving up on the charts of people contacting std and hiv. So please do what you have to do

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I have not read all the answers, but enough to say, we are not talking about anything other than sexual stimulation and when did anyone as a teenager think about the consequences. This is something that they can actually do and enjoy. If their reasoning brains are gone obviously their desire for intimate human contact is still very much alive and well.

How much do we deprive them of under the guise of caring and protecting. They are facing the end of their lives, knowingly or not, give them a break. I do not personally believe that their souls are in peril because their brains are broke and they have reached out for intimacy.

Your mom and this married man have reverted beyond their original marriage vows and have found some comfort in one another. I am more happy that they found something to bring them some joy in this damnable diseased state than I am concerned that they are AD or married or anything else.

I say good for them and leave them alone.

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Hello Everyone! Thank you very much for the responses and suggestions. To briefly answer some questions: Mom has Alzheimer's. The "gentleman" has Alzheimer's. On Mom's door we have a sign posted for the caregivers: Please keep door locked at all times. So -- her door wasn't locked. The "gentleman" is MARRIED -- so I don't think his wife would like this relationship one bit. I have been reading on this subject and it can be good for some people in Memory Care for they have very little that gives them pleasure. Last time I visited Mom she said to me: Have you met my husband? I said, Husband? I thought you two were friends (I was fishing). And mom said: Oh, we are more than friends. AARP said a lot of Memory Care residents act like teenagers or younger of course. This incident has been reported to upper management, and I have a one on one meeting with the Director of the facility this Friday, July 27th. I'm not going to knock it down completely, but there are some No-No's here, and him being married is one. The second -- how did they get into my mother's room when we ask for her door to be locked at all times. Third, mom is a devoted Catholic. If she was in her right mind she wouldn't be doing this. Again, I have mixed emotions for if a male companion makes mom happy -- then I am all for it. I just don't think this guy is the right one due to his marital status. Isn't it funny how life has come full circle? She would get down on me being with boys when I was in my teens, and now I am the parent worried about mother being with men . . . . . . . . . :-)

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So true.... his being married is a definite deal-breaker. Let us know how your meeting goes. It should be a no-brainer.

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This happens way more than people realize. A friend of mine knew someone who worked in a NH, and she said they caught people in the act all the time. She also heard that some of the older men were popping Viagra pills, and messing around with young female staff members who came in to do cleaning!

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Those statistics about the rise of STDs in the "elderly" are including anyone over 50 HolidayEnd.

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What’s your point?

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I remember reading a few years ago, about STDs in America’s elder population, how the insidence was on the rise. So that’s something practical to think about. Also, how feeble are the participants? Sex is very vigorous at times. And to me, it just doesn’t seem safe or proper for a 90 year old to be having sex in care facility. But, I’m a person who could be called ‘prim and proper’.

My mom and I discussed sex occasionally throughout my life and I am positive she wouldn’t want any man bothering her in that way. I’d make sure that business was stopped!!!

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It's a good and healthy thing if parents are able to discuss sex with their appropriately aged children, of course. But I do think it would be only sensible to bear in mind that your mother may not have told you the whole truth.

There was a brief history of the accidental discovery of Viagra on the radio this afternoon, speaking of vigorous but frail participants. Picture me running round the room with my hands over my ears going 'la-la-la'.

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Once you have lost capacity to make informed decisions , you cannot consider entering a sexual relationship as being between "consenting adults". No matter whom this confused person might "think" the partner might be I can't see it as being a good thing. Almost like a date rape under influence of drugs! Question to consider, would she accept these relations if she had capacity?

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Who's going to answer that question, though? Most children would prefer not to consider what relations their parents, and perhaps especially their mothers, would find "acceptable" hem-hem, not to say fun; and there's not likely, either, to be a history from earlier conversations of "mother's established sexual preferences" to draw on.

I'm sure I am guilty of stereotyping like blazes, here; but I can't imagine that successful coïtus, specifically, is likely to be what we're talking about most of the time. Or maybe it is. Oh Lord, when does it ever end...

But say we're stopping short of full sex, how is it to be policed? What are residents allowed to do? Will there be a sliding scale? They can hold hands but not touch one another's torsos; or are they, like prisoners, allowed no physical contact at all? Won't that in itself be distressing if it is indeed what they were both most in need of?

I still think it's best to keep to the "is this gentleman bothering you, ma'am?" angle rather than the "that's no way for a lady to behave!" angle.

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...

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I was pondering what the "caught with another man in her room" might have included. It does fire up the imagination, doesn't it, in a worrying way; but then I remembered the four ages of man and heaved a sigh of relief:

18-30 Tri-weekly
30-50 Try weekly
50-70 Try weakly
70+ Stick to beer.

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Ha ha, that's cute, CM!

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if an elder is beyond being legally able to sign legal forms, then I feel they are beyond being able to give consent to sex. I just know my mom would have said No Way in her healthy mind, so it would be No from me, as her POA and acting as her healthy mind. Would a nursing home allow her one partner or many? Anytime of the day or night? Seems very wrong for nursing home to allow such a situation to continue. Am I being foolish on this matter? I don't think so.

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It really depends on the patient. There are people who are mentally impaired to the point of needing guardians but they can still consent to sex and find it a comforting part of their lives. The problem becomes protecting a vulnerable person from abuse but still allowing them to have as much freedom as they can safely have. It certainly is not overprotective to ask questions and make sure the situation is safe.

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It depends.

Who is the man? An employee? Another resident?

How does you mom feel before, during, and after the man's visit?

What is the man's condition? Does he too have Alzheimer's?

Have you asked the man his intentions?

Does your mom understand that this man isn't your father?

What do you think your mom would do if she didn't have Alzheimer's? Did your mom believe she would reunite with your father after death?

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My own life, Her name was Norma Thomas (not sure of her married name). She was a young preacher’s wife with two small sons. This man came to her door and asked for a glass of water which she gave him. He left, but later returned and forced his way in - raped and stabbed her to death. I knew her older sister Kay from grade school thru high school. Kay and her other sister worked for years to bring him to justice and to get the nursing home law passed. The story was featured on Paula Zahn’s cold case show. The murder happened in St. Cloud.

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Thanks for the extra info, Becky. After having read your post, it seems like not only the employees need to be background checked, but maybe residents, too.

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You have a right to speak up about anything that seems amiss to you. Perhaps this man offers her comfort or more than that. If you deem it is hurting your mother, you can voice your OPINION.

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Wonderful news, Mary Kathleen. To be honest I am so green with envy of anybody elderly or not who actually has a sexual partner. I was widowed 17 years ago and would dearly love somebody to cuddle me.

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Me, too, Best. I was left “high and dry” in my mid-fifties when hubby became disabled. 😢

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Just when I thought I had heard everything about these places, and as though there aren't enough problems there. When my mom was in a NH for rehab, twice an old man came in and just sat in a chair. I really don't think he knew where he was. He peed himself. Luckily mom called for staff to get him out and they did right away. Luckily too, there was a pad on the chair. Where my mom was, most people could hardly walk, let alone perform any acrobatics of sex.

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This is touchy because my daughter says it happens. My feeling is like some have said, she is not able to give consent. But, she is probably back in time. She may think this man is her husband or boyfriend.

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Good for you, Longears. That is exactly what I would say. You cannot be responsible for your mother's choices and behaviors.

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No, I don't think that you are being overprotective! I can only answer from experience, as my Grandmother (institutionalized at 78 until she passed away at 89) had full blown Alzheimer's back in the 70's, when not a lot was known, let alone how to manage it, especially in the family home such as ours. But I cannot imagine her being able to consent, let alone enjoy sex in her condition, therefore in my opinion it would be non consensual and therefore rape.

I'm sure that every situation is different, and I'm not talking about holding hands or affection, because as a family, we tried to provide that for her, and the staff was always giving her hugs and back rubs, and showing her kindness, but she was far too gone in her disease, to ever be able to consent to such a complex decision making process.

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One of the unanswered questions in Alzheimer's patient management, is a lack of sexual activity. The facts of sex as to what it produces in the brain is better blood flow and more oxygen which the brain is deprived of as women age. This is a taboo subject but needs more sunshine.

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I think sexual consent for someone with Alzheimer's is even a concern in a marital relationship. I don't think you are overprotective and I would ask about the status of her friend vis a vis STDs. Then, I think a consultation with a psychologist to determine if your mom is able to consent to sexual activity is in order.

The other consideration has to do with whether or not intercourse would be painful for your mom if she has vaginal atrophy. But if she can consent, they have checked both of them for STDs and no one is getting hurt, I agree with MaryKathleen. Sex is good for you.

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Further to my comment what is lacking in medical management for women with AD is a visit to a GYN which is beyond medicare wisdom for payment. At no time should a women up to 75 be left without her body lubricated especially for a women who has been extremely sexually activated in her life style. We have to grow up to the European culture where in many countries men can have service from outside and women are treated humanely for her own pleasures.

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In Florida there is a law called Norma’s Law. It was passed to keep rapists out of nursing homes. A friend from School’s sister was brutally raped and murdered in front of her two small sons. Her family searched from the 70’s until about 5 years ago. Over the years he raped and assaulted several other women including an elderly nursing home resident. He was ultimately found via DNA living in an Orlando nursing on Medicaid via the state. My friend and her sisters worked tirelessly to get him evicted from the nursing home and put in prison. They then lobbied lawmakers to make it against the law to allow felons in nursing home at taxpayer expense. Norma’s rapist died in a prison hospital.

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Thanks for that info, Becky. I live in Florida and have not heard of that law or the situation leading up to it. And I used to live in Orlando, raised there and graduated high school early 70's. Never thought about rapists becoming old and living in IL, AL, or NH. That is a great point.

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Ensure that ALL employees go through a criminal record check. Talk to Admiistrator, CEO of facility. As a caregiver working independently with residents, I had to get fingerprinted and provide a DMV printout/record, as part of the vetting procedures. Check with Commission on Aging or other county/state regulatory divisions to see if any reports on file. I am glad to read the response from the 84 year old. I wish I had her libido! Continue talking to your mom and observe non-verbal signs 'too'. I don't think it is up to the facility to decide who does what if mutual (and mutual is the key word here with dementia). Unless everyone's door is locked, I do not see how they can could manage 'no enter zone' (into another's room); it would be more like a prison. Hopefully, if you alert staff of a situation you are alarmed about, they will keep an eye on the 'coming and going' and let you know. Gena

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You forget that when his wife is with AD and the husband as most men are late in life, would wish to make love to his wife of many years, why not, perfectly legal. Sex can be a great therapy as is music to return a women to a better life and anticipation if cognizant.T

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Good Lord - if your mother is still able to have sexual relations at age 90, why not let her enjoy this?

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I think you need to make sure she is enjoying it- not confused, frightened and waiting for it to be over.

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I was just thinking how would I feel if it were my mother. I don't think I would like her having sex with strange men. Plus she wouldn't have known what was going on. Creepy. Does the staff know??

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But I don't suppose you (or any of us) would like our mothers having sex with strange men whether or not they were in a memory care unit, would we? You have to pretend it's not your mother; and from there decide whether or not this lady is able to consent to whatever is taking place. It's difficult, regardless; but one crucial thing to remember is that it isn't about how you feel.

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Personally, I am 84, I still want a man to make love to me (sex). I hope I never lose that desire. I know this brings out the Euwwww factor in you younger people, and I wouldn't want a video made of it. But, to me, there is nothing more comforting and stress reducing in this world than sex. If you can't go all the way, loving caresses release endorphins that make you feel better. My husband can't perform any more, but we still cuddle in bed every morning. I also make it a point to hold him and cuddle him a little bit many times throughout the day. I wish we could do more, but he can't.

Everyone needs to be loved and hugged, that is just who we are.

My ex is in an AL facility. There is a lady there that still likes men in that way. As one old guy said, "She came to MY room and so I gave her what she came for".

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Good for you, MaryKathleen!! I guess I am a "kid" to you at only 64 3/4 :) but I am in total agreement. And it gives me hope, as I am currently single for many years and no boyfriend :(

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I think you have every reason to be concerned! If for no other reason than she doesn't know "where he's been". (VD concerns)

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Oh, geeze, she is 92 and you are worried about VD? How many more years does she have to worry about it?

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Wow, go Momma! Your 96 yo Mom is getting more action then me. If she's not complaining, let her have at it. At those ages I'm sure the guys not all he's cracked *UP* to be....sorry, couldn't resist.

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I wondered if a couple men at my Mom’s dementia facility may have been Registered Sex Offenders. Do you think we would have been notified?

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I haven't read the whole thread but I have to point out that there is a HUGE difference between having someone wander into a room and acting out inappropriately and 2 people who enjoy each others company sharing intimacy - one is assault and needs to be treated as such. I personally don't think the elderly, even those with dementia, should be excluded from having intimate relationships.

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Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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