She's retired and doesn't need the money. She wants him to live with her and says how much it would cost if he was in an assisted living facility. He is very healthy and active and needs no assistance with daily activities but has increasing dementia. The siblings are split on whether she should be paid to let Dad live her.
There must be a care agreement in place. An elder law attorney can prepare it. Dad would become an employer, all taxes and other withholding is out of her payment and dad pays his portion.
Inheritance lost to cost of care is often the reason that sibs do not agree with paying for care to a sibling. This happened in my case which ended up in court, costing more in attorneys and inheritance. I won, and was paid for two years of care and going forward. Dad's assets are for his care and does not become inheritance until after dad passes.
Do it legally, if you do not, any payment to sis is considered gifting and would impact dad's eligibility for Medicaid should be ever need it.
At the very least, your sister is giving up her privacy. If your dad can no longer live alone, he needs some level of supervision, housekeeping and board. Utilities will increase and your sister will be faced with living with someone who wants the house kept warmer than she likes.
Dad's care needs will increase.
Set up a caregiving contract with a lawyer, have taxes taken out and make this all legal so that Medicaid, if needed, doesn't see it as gifting.
This should be an agreement between dad and your sister. Not sure why the other siblings think they should have anything to say about it.
When my FIL’s dementia was mild to moderate, it still required cooking, cleaning, handling his bills, doctor appointments, medication, and constant supervision. Now that it’s severe it is a lot more work, supervision, and stress.
If you have never gone through it, you may not realize how much it takes. Read through this board a bit and what people are dealing with, not only physically but emotionally.
Do any of the other siblings want to take care of him without compensation? Have they stepped up?
1] shared utilities and services, food and personal needs, transport (fuel), and damage to property are all reasonable 'payments' to expect;
2] being paid for personal attention (time and assistance) is not in the spirit of caring for a family member, yet this is the very high price the caregiver pays indirectly through self sacrifice - worthy of consideration and recognition, and perhaps a little more faith and support from family members?
Just to note, no deal saying "you'll get your inheritance when dad dies or dad will leave you the house. Unless the family has generational wealth, there will be nothing left after elder is in a facility at the end, paid for my Medicaid.
1) non-professional, inexperienced caregivers never understand the full scope (and impact) of what they are signing up for (see topic: Burnout on this forum). It often takes a huge toll on them emotionally, mentally, financially and socially (and unfortunately familialy).
2) unless your dad in independently wealthy, there is a good chance (if his dementia gets to the point of his PoA deciding he needs facility care) then he will most likely need Medicaid to pay for it. The application "look-back" in some states can be as long as 5 years (like in my state) the minimum is 2.5 years. There can be no appearance of "gifting" of money, assets or property. There will need to be a legal written contract between the sister and the dad, just for good measure. This also brings clarity and transparency to the rest of the family. No one in the family should be paying for any of his care-related needs. It will eventually break their bank accounts.
3) I also agree on grounds of his personal dignity and sense of control.
Your sister should read some of the Burnout posts on this forum. These stories are not the exception, they are mostly the rule when well-meaning but idealistic adult children go into the caregiving arrangement. The LO usually declines, and often faster than expected. It's just advisable she (and the family) go into this with all their eyes wide open. Paying for his care will be the least of the issues as his dementia marches on. I wish you all much wisdom and peace in your hearts.
Your Dad receives SS at least. That should be used for his care. Better u set it up as rent than paying her as a caregiver. Anything he needs personally should be paid by him. This is even special food he likes but the rest of the family doesn't eat. Sister should not have any out of pocket expenses. She should total her expenses, taxes, utilities, house insurance ect and split it by the number of people living in the house. Thats Dads share. Now this can be adjusted according to his other needs that he should be paying for. His other kids should pitch in if he needs something he can't afford. Sis is doing the caring. Her future should not be jeopardized because she volunteered to do this.
I am all for a parent paying their way if they have the money. Its not fair that one child does all the work and the others reap the rewards. Taking care of a person with Dementia is not easy. Its like caring for a big toddler. Sis is going to need breaks and support.
Seeing a lawyer and having a contract written up is a good thing if Medicaid is ever needed. Also, he/she will be able to tell you how much out of Dads income should go to his care. Any bills Dad has should be paid out of his checking account. This is the best record you could have. If sister needs reimbursement, a check is written and the receipts saved. If there are any large expenditures, note it on the statement and attach the bill. This way when Medicaid looks back on 5 years of statements you don't have to remember what was put out.
If Dad has a home, sell it. Has to be sold at Market Value. Put the proceeds in the bank for his future care. None of it can be given as gifts. Only can be used for his care. Houses can be an Albatross around the neck.
Actually all the siblings should be grateful to her for wanting to do this.
As Geatton says in her reply:
non-professional, inexperienced caregivers never understand the full scope (and impact) of what they are signing up for (see topic: Burnout on this forum). It often takes a huge toll on them emotionally, mentally, financially and socially (and unfortunately familialy).
I made the decision to take on both my parents, and what Geatton has said is exactly what I am experiencing now.
I wish I had known about his forum before agreeing to take in my parents.
I love them dearly, but OMG.
So if she doesn't need the money, I don't see the problem. No, she should not be out of pocket in anyway. Dad should fully pay his own way. Hiring Caregivers won't be cheap and he should be paying that cost. But if she is being paid then so should the other sister be paid. What she does in time consuming.
None of you siblings should pay her out of your own pockets. If she is addimate about being paid, then maybe Dad should just go to an AL. He will have socialization, activities and entertainment. If he has the money, use it.
My advice, do not let him come here. Have sis go to FL.
sometimes the person seems ok and will not accept they have dementia, which also causes problems. As they can be confrontational, if you feel they should have support.
A scan detects the type of Dementia and how it will progress .
it’s difficult to make decisions on loved ones.
Does anyone have Power of Attorney?
if your father moves, then your relatives cannot cope that’s another upheaval.
Perhaps you need an assessment and a meeting with other professionals?
Thanks
Melody
As it appears that your Father will need other carers coming in but your sister will oversee his weekly costs, rent , food and Utilities, the question is merely, what costs she is expecting for doing such things. ? I think advice needs to come from a lawyer, from the care sector.
Here in the UK we have help the aged, The dementia and Alzheimer’s society. Etc. Everyone needs to agree and feel comfortable with arrangements and agreements.
Thanks Melody.
Dad should be paying room and board. There should be a rental or care giver contract drawn up and your sister should have POA over health and finances if he lives with her.
Increasing dementia means at some point sooner thna later Dad will take over your sister's life. She will not be able to leave him alone.
I give her 6 months before she's ready to put him in a home where he belongs.
If you have any love for her, please send her to this forum. It might save her from losing the life as she knows it.
NO amount of compensation will be enough.
Bringing an adult into your household inevitably increases costs: food, obviously, but also utilities, wear and tear, toiletries and laundry; as well as fringe extras such as different t.v. channels - they may look like negligible amounts individually but when you add them up...
Bringing an elder who is developing dementia into your household will also add significant new costs - triple that laundry bill, for a start, then factor in continence care, equipment and adaptations, caregiving and domestic services; and in a state with cold winters and hot summers, you're also going to spend a heck of a lot more on heating and air conditioning.
The difference between your sister's baseline budget and what the household budget will become when your father is part of the household should certainly be borne by your father. That's what it costs to keep him.
Then there is the matter of what her personal commitment to this project is worth, and that's where it gets tricky. Okay, she's retired, so she's not directly losing income from employment; but those are years of her life she will be giving up to his care. How do you recognise their value? Of *course* money doesn't cover it - "a cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing" - but it's a start. I think the siblings will find that it pays to be generous.
Money doesn't seem to be the main object, is that correct? - and this isn't about the money. There are many strong arguments against 24/7 care being provided in a family home regardless of funding, not least that your sister can't possibly know what she's taking on and may be being a bit sentimental about this. If your father too is apprehensive about committing himself to her care, that does change the picture.
I'm sorry, I realise this kind of takes you all back to square one!
This money should come not from YOU, but from your Father's funds. She should make a careful care plan and pass the costs monthly past a lawyer. She should be POA for financial if she is willing, and she should/could be paid for this as well, or hire a Fiduciary yourself for upwards of 90.00 an hour. The money should be paid by Dad, and I would think he would do so happily to be in the care of family.
Very important that this is not seen as "gifting" and that it is well done, because he may need care institutionally in future and you don't want to ruin needs for Medicaid should that 5 year lookback need to take place.
I honestly cannot believe that a sibling willing to take on the care of an elder with dementia would have other siblings who think they should do this care for free. I can't imagine it. And anyone who thinks someone with dementia requires "no assistance" just isn't really thinking clearly. IMHO.
Check into fees, Assisted Living may not be as expensive as you think, and in my mind definitely worth the cost for what you get. How much does your sister expect to be paid for the same services? My mother was paying less than $4500 a month for all those services. That works out to about $6.65 an hour.
If it was me I would charge expect to be paid too. Until you have been the caretaker for an elderly person, especially one with dementia, you have no idea how time consuming it can be.