Does spouse need protection from parent who refuses to go into a home?

On one of the many calls from this SW stressing how things needed to change. Hubby mentioned that he was going to start taking pictures of the living condition since it is a he say she say situation. I heard the SW in the background talking about the world of trouble we would be opening ourselves up too if we started to take pictures, taping conversations, or taking videos of anything. Therefore, hubby backed down on that idea.

So true that hospice does not mean the patient is terminal anymore. In fact, after mom made it back this last time from hospital the nurse came to our home and really laid it out. She said moms conditions could go either way. She could be gone tomorrow (you never know) but more than likely she would be with us a very long time because her conditions are manageable. All it would take is taking medications as prescribed and eating more.

I understand what everyone is saying. Appreciation for the outpour.

Somebody needs to take the bull by the horns here.

Next time she falls, call 911 and tell them flat out that you refuse, absolutely refuse, to take on the responsibility of her care for one more minute of one more day. Abandon her to the state and be done with it. They'll place her where she needs to be whether she wants it or not. The end. Then you can visit. Or not.

"I heard the SW in the background talking about the world of trouble we would be opening ourselves up too if we started to take pictures, taping conversations, or taking videos of anything. Therefore, hubby backed down on that idea."

Pictures? Videos? Please. If that was a punishable offense then everyone and their brother with a cell phone would be in loads of shit for taking pictures and videos 24/7, of everything and everyone. My son's buddy goes around taking pics of women's asses for kicks.

As for taping conversations, that's only illegal if only ONE person knows about it. If the hubs walks in there, says 'I'M RECORDING OUR CONVERSATIONS FROM NOW ON', there's nothing illegal about it.

Oh, and just so you know...nobody in the good old US of A can FORCE anyone to be someone else's caretaker. Abandoning a parent to the state isn't 'abandoning' them. It just means that you refuse to accept the responsibility for them anymore, thereby forcing the state to step in if they don't have anyone else. I would have done it already if I were in your shoes.

At this point I think we have taken the horse to water so it's up to answry whether or not she is thirsty. Hubby needs to find the family jewels. I'm done

Hold it again. SW says YOU would get in trouble for hubby taking pix of the mess in order to try to document necessity for guardianship? I see an incompetent professional trying to cover her own butt. YOU have already gone to APS with this, how are YOU getting in trouble? You have been counseled that mom can go home and in not incompetent...this is obviously wrong. Is there something you are leaving out that would make this SW seem like they care about your family and trying to help you do the right thing? I think you need another opinion on what your realistic options are here and how best to get Mom into care.

All good answers!! vstefans is right, the SW is not even close to holding up her oath of office.

What is 'SW'?

Social Worker, I presume. Do they take an oath of office?

Yes, and lots of water to take in indeed. I have already checked on many of your ideas and suggestions like aps, the lockbox, a few attorneys, etc. I wanted input on what else could be done and if this or that sound correct. And that we have gotten plus some. However, I’ve decided that if spouse is truly tired he will get it done. I know where to send him if he wants to get it done.

OMG not the dog house answry?

I'm a bit confused. How can your husband pay his mom's bills without a financial Power of Attorney?

If you hire an eldercare attorney, the cost can be recouped from his mom's estate as this benefits her - so you don't need to shop for a discount attorney - any eldercare or family attorney will do. Get a competent eldercare attorney and go for guardianship. Your husband already pays her bills, so there is already some proof she needs this help which means that guardianship would probably be pretty darn easy to get. Have the doctors and social workers she has seen write up their recommendations, list out all the Lifeline calls and falls out of bed, document the condition of the house.

Answry, you wrote "I’ve decided that if spouse is truly tired he will get it done" but I'll tell you what, he is well beyond tired, and so wracked by guilt that he's going to need some major support to see his way out of the forest with all those trees in the way. I hope he is open to help and support from you and anyone else who can give it.

We use her card that is loaded with her benefits to pay her bills. The other very small check gets moms grocery and household. Whatever remains, we give to her to keep arguments down. She cannot hold the telephone or read the bills long enough to make the payments over the telephone. SW wants us to get her out of the home and drive her around to doctor appointments (at one time we did) and to pay bills. However, that would mean tons of oxygen tanks because they only last a couple of hours and she can’t use the continuous/portable ones (as seen on TV) according to hospice. Not to mention she can’t stand. She always tries to prove that she can by getting on the portable potty by her bedside and then she gets stuck because she can’t get back up to get in bed. That’s not to mention all the times that she has missed.

I know vstefans. I love my spouse and I know he is tired. However, I’ve started to feel like if I make the call to adult protection (which I did) and it doesn’t go easy but turn around on us that I will get the blame. I was the one that mentioned hospice and got the ball rolling with that and get to hear off and on how he wish we never got them involved, which I’ve started to feel a lot like that as well.

Doctor said he would do dementia test but we would have to do transport according to SW and hospice nurse. Spouse says mom is too weak and asks about other transport methods. This was Friday. Here comes the call from SW yesterday with her guilt trip about how good it would be for mom to be with us and how we should do transport. Well it would be a great idea if it weren’t for the fact that we’ve been there and done that and it did not go well neither time.

Spouse goes to have a procedure done tomorrow-called radiofrequency neurotomy. I pray it goes well for him so that maybe all this strong pain medication can be lowered. These people do not understand that spouse isn’t to do any heavy lifting. One wrong hit, fall, or turn then he will be in a wheelchair.

Answry. Just Do It Anyways. You will get blame and negativity no matter what you do. Maybe that's not a guilt trip, that's an attempt to make something happen that needs to happen. SW may know that APS in your area may not come through with the help that is needed, leaving you - and her- stuck until the dementia/incompetence is documented. No one can be happy and calm about a woman who shouldn't be living alone, living alone. No, it won't go well. She will hate you for making her go to the doctor. Just. Do. It. Anyways.

I hope the neurotomy worked or is starting to! To face this level of stress and difficulty while also being in chronic pain has got to be about all a body can take and then some. I'm praying for you and MIL and the strength this is going to take.

APS finally called today while on my way to work. The first part of the conversation did go, “there is nothing we can do since everyone is saying she is competent.” However, after more discussion, I was told we would receive another call tomorrow after they look into a few more things. Hubby would not take the cell phone when I asked him if he would like to speak to them. He and kids were with me today to visit other family while I worked but the mood quickly turned sour and words between us became few. Her sister also called this week (lives out of state) saying that mom and other family members say she is just fine and needs noone so hubby invited her to visit. It is like a he say she say. Please keep us in your prayers. This situation is a mess and a hurtful one. Sigh.

So APS is considering you as a meddling in-law. Get documentation from those who have said she needs a nursing home. Get it in writing. Make copies and send them to the head of social services via certified mail with a return receipt requested. And you step back. You do no more, don't go there, don't lift a finger, tell 911 to kick in the door.

Encourage sister to visit. Maybe she will be less emotionally bruised and beat up and ready to take the bull by the horns once she actually SEES for herself what is going on. I am so sorry to hear hubby is not up to the task.

This has gone on long enough. You are not responsible for MIL and need have nothing to do with her but if you would like your marriage to continue take care of your spouse. He way not be demented but he is in worse condition that his mother. With his level of pain and the accompanying depression can you imagine what his living conditions would be like if you were not taking care of things. He is not only worn out he is totally disabled. His back is broken her is totally paralysed.
I realize you are fed up with your MIL and having to go over there and clean up and you don't have to. Stop now as of today. This minute pick up the phone and tell hospice the pair of you resign as her primary caregiver. She is too weak to hold the phone so she can't take care of herself. How much help is hospice sending in?
They can provide medical transportation especially for some thing as important as a mental evaluation. Is she loosing weight? That comes under failure to thrive and a good enough reason for a hospital stay and NH. Don't go near MIL but fles your muscles as your hubby's caregiver. Let the SW know how bad her is and how much Pain medication he needs daily. If it zones him out another good reason he can't run his Mom around fetch groceries etc You have a job and kids. If hubby is unable to work you can't stop working. What happens if he runss a red light and gets stopped and drug tested?
There is a way round all this but you have to think outside the box and not wait for others to take action. If you don't have financial POA it is probably illegal for you to be handling Mom's EBT card.
Next time there is a visit to the ER take the car keys and don't let hubby pick her up.
Take care of your spouse or pack up and walk away. Only you know what is best for your family.

APS called back Friday. They are putting in a referral for someone to come out and help as long as there is no conflict with hospice. What type of help? It is unknown? Another call is coming midweek to let us know whether this option will take place. Other than that, they still say this is all they can do since she is considered competent according to hospice and hospital social workers. We did not know APS had tried to visit her until last week when it was told they tried three times. I do not think they interviewed her or looked at housing situation. I hope they send someone who will see that her being competent is not the case.

Veronica: Hospice after this last visit to the hospital is only coming out one hour a day Mon. thru Fri. with threats of discontinuing service if mil goes to hospital one last time. Losing weight? She has no weight on her, almost skin and bones. Very little person now. I guess if APS is able to send someone we will have to ask who will take care of her finances since she refuses to give power of attorney.

Hubby took dinner over again this weekend as usual but I asked him Saturday not to bring over laundry and that we needed to come up with a way for laundry to be done where the mess is being made (no clothes dryer because of electrical problems – house needs rewiring) (now looking at portables). The aid washes the clothes, we re-wash before bringing here (tried various suggestions from here) but as soon as you put stuff in the dryer OMG – it’s like it’s never been washed/let alone washed three times. And then I'm p-oed all over again.

When he took Sunday’s dinner, he says someone had already brought her Sunday dinner but did not touch her or the dump truck load of laundry running out the area. He said he asked who brought her dinner and he says she says she has no idea. So either she is lying or had another day of overtaking medication. This isn't unusual. Hospice had to prevent a morphine overdose last year.

I know the calls will start tomorrow since the slaves didn’t get all the dirty laundry done. I will not accept calls but hubby is another story. I guess he’ll need another key and leave it somewhere for APS to get entrance. Well, keep us in prayer. I hope next report will be a good report.

Hospice providing only one hour a day is pretty standard. that gives the aide time to help the client bath and do some tidying up AND do a load of laundry.
They may follow through and discharge her if she does go to the hospital again. Does she have a valid reason? Do they find something to treat. She is supposed to call hospice when she feels unwell. Does she call you and hubby first? If so you call hospice and request a visit from them. She is so thin she comes under the heading of failure to thrive. They can not simply discharge her because she is a nuisance and refuses to follow instructions. Many patients do that. it is not safe for her to be alone so hospice should be taking the lead in getting her placed. she maybe considered competent but she has more than adequately demonstrated she can not take care of herself. hubby is his own worst enemy and as long as he continues to enable her this is going to continue. Get after that useless SW and insist that she starts doing something about placement and keep calling every day. Also write to her and send it return receipt to the office. That may scare her. They are not going to want to be reported to the State. you can also send a copy to the hospice director and the board of directors. The board can make life h**l for the staff. The board is usually composed of prominent local people who often know nothing of what the work actually consists of and would rather spend money on new carpets for the office than paying the nurses a decent wage. But then I am bitter because nurses are always at the bottom of the food chain. Will certainly pray for you but you do have the tools to get the job done

The mid-week call from APS did not come unless it comes tomorrow or the police show up at our door. However, the phone calls from SW started on my way to work. On spouse cell phone SW says mom need to see doctor and needed to speak to us. Then on the home phone SW says she made call to APS and we need to hear report. We didn’t take call. I’m guessing they still trying to force us.

There are some social workers (not worthy of the profession, IMO) who you have to get tought with. "No, we can't care for her anymore". No, we won't be checking up on her". No, we can't do it, she needs professional care at this point; we can't keep her safe, she won't listen to us". My cousin went through this for YEARS. JUST SAY NO!!!!!

I suspect ba8alou hit it right on the head. The SW's solution is for YOU and hubby to step up and do what you can't do anymore, and that's not the solution. "We can't keep her safe, she won't listen to us" sounds like a good mantra...how can you keep doing this with her as her own guardian and in charge of her decisions? If she will not permit you to give the care she needs, you are afraid of being charge with battery if you insist and do it anyways and neglect if you don't. I don't get why hospice SW made a call to APS when they are already involved - makes no sense. If they are so adamant she neds to see the doctor, why can't they make that happen without calling you? I do not get it. Hope you can stay in communication with the APS people, maybe they will understand why you are not on speaking terms with the hospice people.

I read this hoping you are on the verge of getting what needs to happen to happen...hope you can let us know if/when it does! I find myself thinking of you often and praying.

Caregiver14, they are saying they cannot even do the ER trip - they are worried about her frailty and her refusal, and possible legal consequences of doing that against her will. She keeps getting sent back home again to boot. I don't know about Baker Act, and I'd think that the APS SW would be the best person to ask if that's a possibility.

I do not think SW called APS. Probably another bluff trying to make us do something. I tried to make contact with APS to see what was outcome but was not successful. If they call back next week, I will ask spouse to take the call. I want to wash my hands of ALL this mess.

Saturday spouse ask to take my car because it has more room to haul all the clothes. He was taking them to the laundry mat. At first I say why. Then I was like sure I’ll take off today and we don’t need to go to store so just take this protection for the back seat area (SUV). I was thinking everything was ok but instead three hours later – he texted if you want your vehicle I’ll bring it back since you didn’t want me to use it and of course I got smart saying if something had changed I would have texted or called.

Fast forward to today. Kids and I were going shopping for today’s and this week’s dinner. Instead of making his morning round to mom he decided he was going with us. Everything was good until the kids spotted a fair. We said we‘d go later. I quickly got dinner ready so he could carry something over. Son got impatient and asked what time do we leave. He goes mom can’t be feed early because she’ll be hungry during the night. He finally leaves around three. Thirty minutes later son got impatient again and sent text to hurry up. He makes it back at four and comes in yelling at son. I can’t just go in and treat grandmother like a dog. I had to reheat her food and do this and that and on and on at son.

Then I was like hold on everybody trying to make peace. Then he turns on me. I said it’s funny how you can’t yell at who needs to be yelled at. He immediately thinks I’m talking about mom. I told him I was not talking about mom. He goes who, who else do I talk to? I was talking about the SW. He was not hearing it and so I went I guess she was good to you this weekend because I’m telling you I was not and am not talking about mom.

We go on to fair. I’m trying to make conversation. He refused to talk to me and only spoke to kids. We try to make it to the ticket booth but by then there is thunder and drizzle of rain. They refused us tickets and say this was last day. Now son is disappointed and stated so. I cover his mouth with hand and promised we’ll find something next weekend again trying to keep the peace. I get yelled at to shut up and let son voice his opinion.

The kids and I go on to eat, watch movies, and get on our boxing bag. He goes on to go through a bottle of wine, a pack of beer, and real cigarettes still only talking to the kids. That is until he hears gunfire outside and decided to come and ask me did I hear his idiot older son from first marriage shooting his gun out the front door and to keep kids inside.

Of course, if I jump up to take the kids by myself that would be a problem. When I try to keep the kids happy and out of this insane mess, even of our unit, then I’m trying to turn the kids against him.

I know I don’t always do what’s right or say what’s right but he** I try. Hence the reason I don’t know if I should continue with APS or anyone else for that matter for fear of being hit with the blame if things go wrong. Even if it goes right, I’ll get the blame when the guilt sets in.

Good night everyone, I’m going to get rest so kids and I can homeschool before work tomorrow. Have blessed night or day lol. I don’t like being on this emotional roller coaster and not just with this care giving but with our relationship in general.

Sounds like he can't let go of Mom even though it is hurting you and the kids pretty badly. He obviously feels torn and hurts a lot too, but does not have a good way of showing it, and he is taking it out on the people who love him, rather than the person who is using him in a vain attempt to hold on to life as she knows it. Praying for you all. Sorry to hear it remains so incredibly difficult, and hoping there is a change in the works for this situation.

This is very hard but you can't change him you can only change yourself. Right now the kids are your top priority. do you know why his first marriage failed? If not you are getting a very good insight into his true nature. Mom is only a small part of this problem there are far deeper issues here that I certainly am not equiped to address but you can't manage them on your own by walking on eggshells.
Husband's issues are not just his chronic pain or Mom. he is a very sick mentally ill puppy. Find yourself a very good therapist and I mean the $100 + an hour sort and if you are not comfortable with the first one move on. Remember you are the customer, you are paying them. But the right therapy will be a very good investment. You may not like some of the advice but it will help you to see things clearly and help you make the right decisions going forward. Pray about it meditate whatever helps you. Ask the Dr for some antianxiety meds at least just to help you through this rough patch. do not protect your husband from the kids. They have rights too but also be very careful not to use them as weapons. Ignore the silent treatment. it is just a ploy to get your attention. For example prepare a meal,set the table and tell him when it is ready. he may not come to the table or say he hates it anything a spoiled child would do. Tell him you will put it in the fridge in case he's hungry later, or tell him there is a TV dinner in the fridge and he is welcome to heat it up but don't do it. Converse with the kids during meals and encourage them to tell their dad about their day's activiies, do not tolerate disrespect.
This is crisis time so if he gets into the alcohol take the kids out to a movie or to something they enjoy. One late night does not matter they don't have to get up for school and you probably aren't sleeping anyway. Leave them easy school work before you leave for work, maybe something like collecting leaves or twigs for a nature project. You are probably passionate about home schooling but maybe this is the time to consider enrolling them in public school at least for the duration of this crisis. I hope this helps I have lived this nightmare and so can you. Blessings

Thanks Vstefans and to all seeing us though this difficult time. I was waiting until this week ended to see if APS gave us another call. They did today and now I can comment on all and give update.

Oh Veronica91, I am sure most of what we are going through is why first marriage failed and if it were not for the fact that I truly love this dude and the children I would be gone. Heck I have done so several times with daughter always blaming me. Mom, all you have to do is keep quiet, do more, and not talk back. Son is a different story and thinks dad is an *** but still loves him.

Yes, my puppy is mentally ill hence the reason two sick puppies could not be in this household because then there would be three. I know it and he knows it. He often says he must be insane. I think the child is spoiled and rotten as well with capability to grow. However, it is on him now. The kids are now 14 and 11 and are a bit more capable of understanding. Now, I try to do more with just us.

It is funny because when we got engaged 15 years ago yesterday many came forth saying he was good as gold but had horrible mood swings. This still holds true. Some days we can be doing something that should be fun and non-stressful. However, we see the switch come on. We try to make things light by saying your devil horns are starting to show.

Now update on mil. Aps called today and said they are going to make a strong effort to get mom in nursing home. However, we still have to do doctor transport and stress nursing home placement and that we can no longer provide care. During conversation, it was also said that some psychiatrist had said nursing home was not needed but after their evaluation, it was clear that it is needed. They are also requesting assistance from hospice to get her ready for transport. Mom gave APS the royal treatment.

I plan to spend the weekend reading through this post and others so hopefully we do not say the wrong thing and defeat the purpose. Now if this doctor comes back with a different opinion then hopefully APS will get on them and hospice this time.

God bless you all and grant you the strength to pull together and see things through. As long as you tell the truth - that Mom/MIL is not permitting you or anyone to give her the care she really needs, and the things she wants done and will accept are simply beyond what you as a family with your own health needs and limitations can provide, it should go off as planned. You cannot, will not, take her into your home, ever, under these circumstances. Remember "we can't keep her safe, she won't listen to us" and how it is unbearable to watch as it is to send every ounce of time and energy you have, and more, down that black hole and neglect your own kids and destroy your own family in the process. Tell them you know she is not safe to be alone and the worry and stress is killing you... It will be hard, but then things will be better, much better for all than they have been in a long time.