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I take it that since he's a wanderer- his giving consent for his money to be used for this project is unrealistic?
Even though you want to put up the fence for your fathers safety- it will likely be viewed as an improvement to your property and therefore not a great idea.
However, what type and size of fence are you talking about? I put up a white picket fence in my front yard of my old house to keep my autistic son from wondering. It was 3'6" high, made of a material that looked like wood but was manmade for durability. My front yard was very large and I think I paid around $5,000. This included a nice looking gate. If that's a dollar figure you're looking at - you might risk it. If your dad ends up needing Medicaid- the penalty isn't huge. On the other hand - if your worried about siblings getting ticked off - who knows?
At the time I put the fence up - since it truely was for Rainmans protection I approached his case worker to see if any grants might be available. I was told they'd pay for door alarms instead. But that wasn't the point. I wanted to be able to take Rainman outside - maybe while I worked in the garden - without worry that he'd wonder off or run out into the street. My point is - after my rant - is you might check with your local Department on Aging for grants or other financial assistance. Sometimes is does work out.
Eight years ago, when mom came to live with us, she wanted a chase lounge to sit and look out the window at the lake. And she wanted to put on the fireplace in the morning to warm up, but ours was natural not gas. I really didn't want gas. But I finally said I would have to use her money for these things. She didn't quite understand, but I did and she was happy. Never thought about it till I read this. If she is doing it for his safety, why not?
I would think it depends on how the POA is worded. Most of those I've seen direct the agent who holds the POA to handle the protected person's finances in his or her best interests. I would first make sure, though, to document (through a doctor, for instance) that your dad's at risk of wandering off.
First, it sounds like your dad may actually have either dementia or Alzheimer's. If this is the case, he can't give consent because he's incompetent and unable to make informed decisions any longer. He needs a guardian. No guardian raises red flags later when things are found out as they are being sorted out after a person dies. I'm actually in the middle of dealing with something right now over a stolen estate because someone who was his POA and not entitled to nothing hijacked everything. More and more findings are pointing right to that and I actually had a hit when the funeral home will buried my dad told me the person who was his POA exercise those powers after he died. Another hit was I was told between the funeral home and the former POA that they tried contacting me but between me and my local police department, there is absolutely no record whatsoever of that. Apparently someone lied and fraud was committed because someone may have accepted stolen money somewhere. My bio dad had alzheimer's and previously lost mom in 06, and I happened to be listed as the only living family. Dad was also not able to give consent since he had Altheimer's for a number of years but it's a question of how many which were not mentioned on the death certificate. Dad should've had a guardian but didn't. This was a big huge red flag and there was no will and probate.
Now, if your dad has dementia or even Alzheimer's, then he probably needs to be in a facility where he can get the right care. Anyone with either of those disorders will eventually become violent and need properly trained personnel handling them. It's not smart to try to handle someone like this on your own, this puts not only are you in danger but also them when you must handle them.
I should forewarn you that dementia and Alzheimer's are often caused by prolonged periods of some kind of deficiency of one or more nutrients. You may be wondering about this but I saw it happen right under my nose without realizing what's really going on and I started having questions because I started wondering. Sure enough, I started doing some research and found my suspicions turned out to be right. In my research I saw where coconut oil can be given to people with dementia or Alzheimer's to improve their conditions and either slow down or completely reverse it. I don't know exactly what coconut oil has in it but if it's helping people with these conditions, why not? I'm sorry I didn't know this when my foster dad was out in the free world before he had to be institutionalized. I'm also sorry I wasn't able to connect the dots or figure out what was really going on with him and why.
In your situation, you really need to do the right thing and get some help because if you don't, people will be looking at you later. I must forewarn you that I found an article last night where widowed elders are often targeted by vultures who already know someone has money. This came as a shock to me that someone who took care of my bio dad already knew he had money and assets, which is why she wormed her way into dad's life. It's a big red flag when the rest of the family doesn't know the person and things are only found out after the patient dies and now all eyes are on the person who ended up "helping" them when it turns out they were really helping themselves to hijack inheritances from rightful heirs. You never know how a situation will pan out until it actually does, and when it does it will all point to who the rightful heirs really are. If your dad has dementia and Alzheimer's like I suspect he does, do the right thing for him because it sounds to me like he needs a guardian and he needs to be in a proper facility getting the right help from properly trained personnel. Don't do anything suspicious that could land you in trouble later. I'm speaking as a person currently dealing with a pending estate case where someone actually did take advantage of my bio dad with Alzheimer's when he was alive. Related or not, please, do the right thing and get him some help
I have to intervene here and say that all people with Alzheimer's do not become violent. Probably most don't. Mostly they become confused and lost. Some may become violent when they feel so confused and lost, but not all... or even most.
No one knows what causes Alzheimer's at the present time. It may be all genetic or an interplay between genes, age, and environment. The coconut oil cure is only a myth that has been debunked. Thank goodness! I don't like messing with coconut oil. It is messy.
If your father ever needs Medicaid, the fence would probably be looked at as an improvement to your house and therefore a gift to you.
If you are asking if it would be legal as POA, my interpretation is that you are adding the fence for him and his benefit so I would use his money. I put a handicapped ramp on my house for my mother, using her money (in Maryland also) and I have no fear that I did anything wrong.
For those of you who would doubt about the connection between dementia and Alzheimer's and violence, perhaps a little research would help but experience would be much better. Experience with research will give you a powerful wealth of information.
For those of you who doubt the connection between mental decline and nutritional deficiencies:
* Google the words nutritional deficiencies and Alzheimer's or you can even type dementia instead of Alzheimer's.
* Another thing you can look up on Google is coconut oil for Alzheimer's
Someone who is like a mother to me once taught us a lesson and I adopted one of her lines that makes perfect sense:
Assuming something only makes an a** of you when it turns out you're wrong. She also pointed out the word a** is in the word assume. Get it? ass-ume. Yep, "mom" sure did have a point and she sure was sharp as a tack because she was a natural teacher who got right to the point
Rainmom has a sensible plan in using a small amount -like 5k- moms $ to do the fence & knowing that IF Medicaid is applied for before the summer of 2022 that there coud be a transfer penalty place on moms Medicaid application. If fence is 5k like rain mom's was, it's a small penalty to deal later for a peace of mind solution now.
I'd also really really REALLY suggest you set up an elder law atty appointment for mom & you as her dpoa to review all moms legal, see if any red flags for medicaid and have her do a personal services contact between her & you to legally pay you for oversight of her care & needs. Even if you right now don't need the $, you bank it as there will be future costs with her in your household. You just don't know what's gonna happen...... One fall to mom or one auto accident to you and everything can change overnight..... Having $ building every mom via the personal services contract will come in handy. A 5 k penalty will be abt a 28 day penalty for Medicaid (avg NH Room&Board day rate is $ 180; so divided by 5k = 28 day). One of the experts on this forum, Gabriel Heiser, has a very very comprehensive book on the issues & costs on caregiving and complexities for family. Perhaps get it, take notes and get with your local atty to see what you can as moms DPOAs do now to better manage the future.
Good luck & be sure to check with your code office as to fencing requirements!
Studies on Alzheimer's show that only 5-10% become violent. Up to 33% can display aggressive behaviors - which includes behavior such as ranting, accusations, swearing, and oppositional defiance. Aggressive behavior can often be managed with redirection, agreeing words, medications and other learned techniques on the part of the caregiver.
In addition, not all persons with Alzheimer's or dementia are legally incompetent and definitely not in the early stages.
Before installing a fence, I might explore if a fence would really help with the wandering problem. How likely that he would be able to navigate around the fence? He could be able to lift a latch or unlock it. And if he's too far advanced to be curtailed by a fence, then it might not be suitable to leave him outside unattended anyway.
No one can answer your question correctly unless other aspects are explained by you. ie; #1. Are you his power of attorney. #2. Does he receive any benefits from the government. (And I'm not talking social security, SS is not a benefit, that is an individuals stolen money being given back in small increments) .. answer those then you can be advised accordingly.
If you already have DPOA, no need to complicate things with a guardianship. Guardianship can be cumbersome, requiring you to go through the courts for every expenditure and expensive, requiring an attorney ad litem be appointed for the patient for every court appearance. I agree with what others are saying. The fence is a little iffy but probably worth the risk. Have you thought of a GPS alarm? Partient wears a wrist band that cannot be removed and sounds an alarm when they get 100 or so feet from the base station. If they still manage to get out, you can track wearabouts through GPS. Google your Alzheimer's store. And good luck. Bless you for trying to keep your loved one home as long as possible.
...now that POA is established, the general answer, is yes. I would like to add somthing else to ponder, and that is; If he is a known wanderer and because you are his POA (type of POA can better define your responsibilities) and, because he lives with you, If you do not take actions to secure (within reasonable expectations and means) his safety and well being is now in your hands .. so, by not placing locks or restraints on exits and also not having a fence (many variables exit in fencing) ..not protecting his environment could be construed as irresponsible. I earlier asked if he was receiving government assistance.. reason I've asked is if he is and if that assistance is based on his income then withdrawing money to build a fence would need to be documented well and also easily argued and defined by you (if ever an issue) under the the same reasoning of safety. ...over-all, the answer is still, a yes.
Sounds like you'd be in trouble if you didn't, here's it's required to have a fence made like a school fence that can be locked most use a dog fence with no top around a section of the yard and lock the door, Before I was a caregiver I thought this was degrading and a horrible practice. Why weren't there caregiver just watching them. Now I take care of two dementia patients and know how quickly they can get away when I'm helping one or the other. Talk to everyone involved if they don't like it tell them to take your place for a few days and they will be responsible if they get hurt or lost because of no fence. Got to check the housing rules and talk to a lawyer to draw a release if other's don't want the fence. But a white picket fence is not going to do much.unless at lest 4 ft high. Or more.
A fence is a good visual guide, perhaps for early stages of dementia. However, dementia almost guaranteed to progress, and eventually that wouldn't keep him safe unless you were in the yard with him. In that case, it would be a good tool so that Dad has a visual guide to follow, but if he's decided he needs to leave, it wouldn't help that. Therefore, it might not be an appropriate use, unless it can be locked, and then only if your POA is meant to be used "in his best interests" and not "as he wishes" since he may not wish to be confined. Best of luck in your time with your Dad, it can be very educational as the older brain ages, it can teach us new ways of looking at things.
Putting up a fence is so much better than him wandering off and getting lost or hurt. I would put up a fence and make sure the latch won't allow him to get out. I don't know about Medicaid in other states other than Ohio and Michigan, but depending on your father's income and assets, he will not be eligible for Medicaid anyway! Prayers for you my Dear, I hope everthing works out for the both of you!
If you would have not done this for yourself, have the money come from Ma's account. A keyed doorknob to the basement. A grab bar for the shower, handrails for a short stairway. All paid for by my Ma. Replacing a non digital stove with one that was which also had a lock out feature was a shared expense. However we paid in full for ceramic tile installed in our kitchen to meet with the wood flooring height to curtail trip hazards as we needed to replace our flooring anyway. Hope this helps. Also my Ma in the middle stages gets IT, in the moment. She understands what you are saying and can answer appropriately. She enen solves Wheel of Fortune puzzles. However she will not remember the conversations or Wheel later in the day.
I agree with Rainmom; this will look like improvements to your property. We considered making improvements to our house to accommodate my mom when she came to live with us and an elder care attorney told us not to use her money. It looks bad, it's your property and someone can contest that it was not necessary.
I do not know how long you want your dad to stay with you. My mom lived with me for 2 years. When she started wandering, I knew it was time to place her. I saved my moms money because I knew I would need it when I could no longer care for her.
Think about that too; you may come to a time that you no longer can care for him and the money could be used for long term care.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Even though you want to put up the fence for your fathers safety- it will likely be viewed as an improvement to your property and therefore not a great idea.
However, what type and size of fence are you talking about? I put up a white picket fence in my front yard of my old house to keep my autistic son from wondering. It was 3'6" high, made of a material that looked like wood but was manmade for durability. My front yard was very large and I think I paid around $5,000. This included a nice looking gate. If that's a dollar figure you're looking at - you might risk it. If your dad ends up needing Medicaid- the penalty isn't huge. On the other hand - if your worried about siblings getting ticked off - who knows?
At the time I put the fence up - since it truely was for Rainmans protection I approached his case worker to see if any grants might be available. I was told they'd pay for door alarms instead. But that wasn't the point. I wanted to be able to take Rainman outside - maybe while I worked in the garden - without worry that he'd wonder off or run out into the street. My point is - after my rant - is you might check with your local Department on Aging for grants or other financial assistance. Sometimes is does work out.
Now, if your dad has dementia or even Alzheimer's, then he probably needs to be in a facility where he can get the right care. Anyone with either of those disorders will eventually become violent and need properly trained personnel handling them. It's not smart to try to handle someone like this on your own, this puts not only are you in danger but also them when you must handle them.
I should forewarn you that dementia and Alzheimer's are often caused by prolonged periods of some kind of deficiency of one or more nutrients. You may be wondering about this but I saw it happen right under my nose without realizing what's really going on and I started having questions because I started wondering. Sure enough, I started doing some research and found my suspicions turned out to be right. In my research I saw where coconut oil can be given to people with dementia or Alzheimer's to improve their conditions and either slow down or completely reverse it. I don't know exactly what coconut oil has in it but if it's helping people with these conditions, why not? I'm sorry I didn't know this when my foster dad was out in the free world before he had to be institutionalized. I'm also sorry I wasn't able to connect the dots or figure out what was really going on with him and why.
In your situation, you really need to do the right thing and get some help because if you don't, people will be looking at you later. I must forewarn you that I found an article last night where widowed elders are often targeted by vultures who already know someone has money. This came as a shock to me that someone who took care of my bio dad already knew he had money and assets, which is why she wormed her way into dad's life. It's a big red flag when the rest of the family doesn't know the person and things are only found out after the patient dies and now all eyes are on the person who ended up "helping" them when it turns out they were really helping themselves to hijack inheritances from rightful heirs. You never know how a situation will pan out until it actually does, and when it does it will all point to who the rightful heirs really are. If your dad has dementia and Alzheimer's like I suspect he does, do the right thing for him because it sounds to me like he needs a guardian and he needs to be in a proper facility getting the right help from properly trained personnel. Don't do anything suspicious that could land you in trouble later. I'm speaking as a person currently dealing with a pending estate case where someone actually did take advantage of my bio dad with Alzheimer's when he was alive. Related or not, please, do the right thing and get him some help
No one knows what causes Alzheimer's at the present time. It may be all genetic or an interplay between genes, age, and environment. The coconut oil cure is only a myth that has been debunked. Thank goodness! I don't like messing with coconut oil. It is messy.
If you are asking if it would be legal as POA, my interpretation is that you are adding the fence for him and his benefit so I would use his money. I put a handicapped ramp on my house for my mother, using her money (in Maryland also) and I have no fear that I did anything wrong.
For those of you who doubt the connection between mental decline and nutritional deficiencies:
* Google the words nutritional deficiencies and Alzheimer's or you can even type dementia instead of Alzheimer's.
* Another thing you can look up on Google is coconut oil for Alzheimer's
Someone who is like a mother to me once taught us a lesson and I adopted one of her lines that makes perfect sense:
Assuming something only makes an a** of you when it turns out you're wrong. She also pointed out the word a** is in the word assume. Get it? ass-ume. Yep, "mom" sure did have a point and she sure was sharp as a tack because she was a natural teacher who got right to the point
I'd also really really REALLY suggest you set up an elder law atty appointment for mom & you as her dpoa to review all moms legal, see if any red flags for medicaid and have her do a personal services contact between her & you to legally pay you for oversight of her care & needs. Even if you right now don't need the $, you bank it as there will be future costs with her in your household. You just don't know what's gonna happen...... One fall to mom or one auto accident to you and everything can change overnight..... Having $ building every mom via the personal services contract will come in handy. A 5 k penalty will be abt a 28 day penalty for Medicaid (avg NH Room&Board day rate is $ 180; so divided by 5k = 28 day).
One of the experts on this forum, Gabriel Heiser, has a very very comprehensive book on the issues & costs on caregiving and complexities for family. Perhaps get it, take notes and get with your local atty to see what you can as moms DPOAs do now to better manage the future.
Good luck & be sure to check with your code office as to fencing requirements!
In addition, not all persons with Alzheimer's or dementia are legally incompetent and definitely not in the early stages.
I do not know how long you want your dad to stay with you. My mom lived with me for 2 years. When she started wandering, I knew it was time to place her. I saved my moms money because I knew I would need it when I could no longer care for her.
Think about that too; you may come to a time that you no longer can care for him and the money could be used for long term care.