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Be aware that reverse mortgage, home equity line of credit, and home equity loan are all second mortgages if your parents already have a first mortgage on their home. Be aware that all mortgages must be repaid to the lending institution. There was this case a few years ago where the husband and the wife were living in their home. The husband needed care so he took out a reverse mortgage on his home. The husband eventually died and then the reverse mortgage company came looking for their money. The wife tried to still live in the home but the reverse mortgage company evicted her.
My advice to you is to seek the advice of an elder law attorney to see what’s the best option for your parents.
Have you looked into programs that may help with services that they would be eligible for? Are either of your parents Veterans? If so the VA has many programs that can help keep a Veteran at home. And they now will pay a Spouse to care for the Veteran. (I wish that had been the case while I was caring for my Husband!) To see what benefits might be available contact the local Veterans Assistance Commission they can look up service records that will help with determining eligibility for services. Their service is FREE The local Area Agency on Aging may also have programs that they would qualify for. Some of these programs will provide some hours of caregiving services. If either parent is eligible for Hospice a Nurse will come weekly, a CNA will come 2 to 3 times a week they will bathe, dress, order supplies that will be delivered. (The Nurse orders medications that get delivered.) And you can request a Volunteer that can come in and sit with the person on Hospice so the other can get out for a bit. (They can not do "hands on care" though)
I haven't done extensive research on VA benefits (my spouse is a Korean War vet but does not have a service-connected disability). From what I have done, however, it appears that Aid & Assistance isn't applicable unless the vet is quite low-income, not part of the "forgotten middle". Local aging services are largely income based as well.
I disagree. They work for some and are a nightmare for others. You need to know your needs. Look at my post below. My MIL had a reverse mortgage that was GREAT for her and kept her in her home until her death. Basically they are a simple loan, but at a higher interest rate to be certain, and "due" in some circumstances that may or may not work for you. For MIL she was house rich, living in Carefree, AZ and cash poor with only her SS income. She got a reverse mortgage that bumped her monthly income up enough to have in-home care. She was LUCKY enough not to get so ill she ever had to leave her home. She had housekeeper/cook daily and could pay transit to MD and etc. She died at home. My partner, her son and only heir then sold the home, paid the mortgage, and got what was left from sale as his inheritance. Worked just great. Now, had she had to go into care the home would have had to be sold at once. She could not have used Medicaid as she would have had SOME income from the house, most of it going to reverse Mortgage money.
A reverse mortgage is not something I would do without meticulous lawyer advice. And the fact is some companies are not good. Others are quite reputable. I live in San Francisco. This is a city where MANY elders are house-rich and cash-poor. This can work for them, but for others it increases their monthly income to the extent they cannot avail themselves of government Medicaid and other programs.
What type of care? If you are talking about simple caregiving activities like toileting, bath or shower, dressing, light housecleaning, laundry then all you need is a "caregiver" if hired from an agency it is pretty simple. If there are medications involved or "wound care" an agency will require someone more advanced (read that as expensive) possibly a nurse. Hiring privately you can instruct someone to give medications. Wound care should be left to a professional.
It is very possible that if you sit down and do the "Pro's and Con's" of Assisted Living it might actually be less expensive to move to AL. No food expenses (or much less) no property taxes, no homeowners insurance (may have to get "renters insurance") probably no car since most facilities transport residents to a variety of places. No gas, electric, garbage, water bills.
To get the best view on things an Elder Care Attorney might provide m ore insight. OH, and if either parent is a Veteran the VA may have programs that will enable the Veteran to remain in the home. They also have programs that will help make a house safe, ramps, roll in shower, and other modifications.
See an elderly attorney for financing options. I do not recommend a reverse mortgage if funds are needed for future care. Do not look at a crystal ball since you never know what may happen in the future. When funds run out, Medicaid is an option for home or facility.
Lou You need to see a certified elder law attorney with a copy of the trust, the taxes, the financials of your parents etc. This attorney must be proficient, experienced, etc in dealing with trusts and Medicaid for your parents state. There are so very many details to consider and each state has different laws.
HERE IS A REPLY FROM ORIGINAL POSTER WITH MORE INFO. Hi thanks for the input they are currently on Medicaid house has been in a trust for over 10 years they currently have 8 hour 7 days a week care from Medicaid need night aid they are in there early 90s mentally both in good shape need help mainly for showering laundry meal prep and lite cleaning,nursing home is out of the question just looking to draw on the house to pay for nite aid looking for best option thank you
If the plan is to pay for care in a facility , I would sell now while prices are high . To keep the house would cost money to maintain it and taxes . More info would be needed if trying to keep them at home , as it may or may not be viable .
Unless there is something about the house that makes sense to continue to own it, for most kids, if the parent is a widow or widower entering a facility then selling the parents empty home makes the most sense. & have them enter the AL or NH first with enough $ set aside to be able to private pay 4-6 months and then clear out the house and get it freshen up / staged to get it best possible FMV. And have your parent do their legal so that you as a POA can fully do whatever needed to do the Act of Sale paperwork as needed in your State. Be a motivated seller so it sells in 4-6 months so that there isn’t a $ problem in paying the facility. Hopefully it sells.
Also please get a Realtor who understands that the place will really truly be Seller is “as is” no warranties, no repairs, so buyers offers accordingly.
If it’s sale price suggested by the Realtor is wildly different & lower than its tax assessor value, I’d suggest that you get it inspected and appraised. Both done by registered and licensed professionals as selling for under FMV will be an issue for LTC Medicaid should elder run out of $ and end up applying for this Medicaid program to pay for their stay in a NH. Also this program looks at all their finances and if they gifted any $ - like gave some house sale $ to others - they will be penalized.
reverse mortgages are imho smoke and mirrors. $ wise it’s about 45% of value of the house and it is a loan that has 2 be repaid if family should want the property. If the property still has a mortgage on it, that has to be paid off first from the reverse mortgage $ before you can be paid. On the RM the owner still responsible for taxes, repairs and insurance. If they have owned the place forever, their insurance may be outdated. But now it has a new mortgage so all new coverage needed and maybe costly. If insurance, taxes, or repairs not done, the reverse mortgage can be called in, payable in full.
For a HELOC a homeowner will need a credit score and source of income. If old, have no payroll to show. Their SS payments alone may not be high enough to qualify for a HELOC. Heloc is a loan that has to be paid back. And it won’t be a 30 yr like a regular mortgage. But maybe 10 years cause borrower is old so bank wants it paid off before you’re likely to die. If borrowers need all the HELOC $ to pay for a NH, they won’t be able to pay the HELOC and that will be a problem. As the bank will foreclose.
Sell. Anything else will be time-consuming, as in maintenance; costly, as in whose money pays for upkeep; etc. etc. With a sale, you get a lump sum which then can be invested at 5+ percent at present. The money grows instead of disappears.
"Oh, but we all grew up there and Daddy wanted us to spend our whole adult lives having vacations there!" or "Mom may be able to go back there someday, so we have to keep it!" Nope. Nope. Nope.
It's your parents' asset, it should pay for their care, and you don't need the hassle of keeping it. Which it will be, since I doubt that your parents are presently up to it if you're thinking about care for them.
To have a reversed mortgage the person has to be living in the home. Once not living there, the mortgage is called in. I agree, need more info. Is Mom living in her home? If not where is living. Do you have POA? If Mom has Dementia, she is not able to take out a loan in her name because she no longer can make informed decisions. Not sure if a lender would deal with u even with POA. Not ur house.
I would see an elder law attorney with full list of assets of parents if you are the POA and have the ability to act for them. If you are trying to help them with the decision then it is a good idea to see the attorney for options WITH them, to help in decision making. This isn't DIY stuff. It makes a huge difference if you get a reverse mortgage in helping pay for inhome help and etc DEPENDENT ON how much the reverse mortgage gives monthly. HOWEVER, most are payable within a few months of exit from home, whether for care in -facility or not, forcing sale of home. AND they add to the monthly income of a senior who may WITHOUT THIS CASH be qualifying for Medicaid. WITH the cash they may not qualify. For instance: Myrtle applies for and gets a reverse mortgage loan. Myrtle gets 700.00 SS a month. The reverse mortgage gives Myrtle another 2,000 a month. Now Myrtle falls and breaks her hip and isn't recovering. She must enter care. Her income now, however is 2,700 a month and she may not qualify for Medicaid help.
There are so many other things to weigh and these are legal matters that are changeable for state you live in and dependent on other assets. Do see an attorney.
A bit more info would be helpful What type of care is needed? Is it a few hours a day or 24/7 care? There are programs that can help. You can check with your local Senior Service Center or local Area Agency on Aging. either might be aware of programs that your parents might be eligible for. Are either of your parents Veterans? If so the VA may be of big help. And depending on where and when the service was it might be a little help or a LOT! Contact your local Veterans Assistance Commission. The services they provide are free. If they qualify there is Aid and Attendance that will provide some income.
One of the things that might be worth spending some money on is a consultation with an Elder Law Attorney. make sure you have all the paperwork done that you need to have done in order to legally be able to help them and make decisions for them when the time comes.
While wanting to keep them in their house is a great idea it is not always the safest, easiest and least expensive option.
Hi thanks for the input they are currently on Medicaid house has been in a trust for over 10 years they currently have 8 hour 7 days a week care from Medicaid need night aid they are in there early 90s mentally both in good shape need help mainly for showering laundry meal prep and lite cleaning,nursing home is out of the question just looking to draw on the house to pay for nite aid looking for best option thank you
To me the best thing to do would be to sell their home, and use that money for their care, whether it be for care in an assisted living facility, memory care or skilled nursing facility. And if and when that money runs out you can apply for Medicaid for them.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My advice to you is to seek the advice of an elder law attorney to see what’s the best option for your parents.
Are either of your parents Veterans? If so the VA has many programs that can help keep a Veteran at home. And they now will pay a Spouse to care for the Veteran. (I wish that had been the case while I was caring for my Husband!)
To see what benefits might be available contact the local Veterans Assistance Commission they can look up service records that will help with determining eligibility for services. Their service is FREE
The local Area Agency on Aging may also have programs that they would qualify for.
Some of these programs will provide some hours of caregiving services.
If either parent is eligible for Hospice a Nurse will come weekly, a CNA will come 2 to 3 times a week they will bathe, dress, order supplies that will be delivered. (The Nurse orders medications that get delivered.) And you can request a Volunteer that can come in and sit with the person on Hospice so the other can get out for a bit. (They can not do "hands on care" though)
My MIL had a reverse mortgage that was GREAT for her and kept her in her home until her death. Basically they are a simple loan, but at a higher interest rate to be certain, and "due" in some circumstances that may or may not work for you.
For MIL she was house rich, living in Carefree, AZ and cash poor with only her SS income. She got a reverse mortgage that bumped her monthly income up enough to have in-home care. She was LUCKY enough not to get so ill she ever had to leave her home. She had housekeeper/cook daily and could pay transit to MD and etc. She died at home. My partner, her son and only heir then sold the home, paid the mortgage, and got what was left from sale as his inheritance. Worked just great.
Now, had she had to go into care the home would have had to be sold at once. She could not have used Medicaid as she would have had SOME income from the house, most of it going to reverse Mortgage money.
A reverse mortgage is not something I would do without meticulous lawyer advice. And the fact is some companies are not good. Others are quite reputable. I live in San Francisco. This is a city where MANY elders are house-rich and cash-poor. This can work for them, but for others it increases their monthly income to the extent they cannot avail themselves of government Medicaid and other programs.
If you are talking about simple caregiving activities like toileting, bath or shower, dressing, light housecleaning, laundry then all you need is a "caregiver" if hired from an agency it is pretty simple.
If there are medications involved or "wound care" an agency will require someone more advanced (read that as expensive) possibly a nurse.
Hiring privately you can instruct someone to give medications. Wound care should be left to a professional.
It is very possible that if you sit down and do the "Pro's and Con's" of Assisted Living it might actually be less expensive to move to AL. No food expenses (or much less) no property taxes, no homeowners insurance (may have to get "renters insurance") probably no car since most facilities transport residents to a variety of places. No gas, electric, garbage, water bills.
To get the best view on things an Elder Care Attorney might provide m ore insight.
OH, and if either parent is a Veteran the VA may have programs that will enable the Veteran to remain in the home. They also have programs that will help make a house safe, ramps, roll in shower, and other modifications.
You need to see a certified elder law attorney with a copy of the trust, the taxes, the financials of your parents etc. This attorney must be proficient, experienced, etc in dealing with trusts and Medicaid for your parents state.
There are so very many details to consider and each state has different laws.
Hi thanks for the input they are currently on Medicaid house has been in a trust for over 10 years they currently have 8 hour 7 days a week care from Medicaid need night aid they are in there early 90s mentally both in good shape need help mainly for showering laundry meal prep and lite cleaning,nursing home is out of the question just looking to draw on the house to pay for nite aid looking for best option thank you
More info would be needed if trying to keep them at home , as it may or may not be viable .
Also please get a Realtor who understands that the place will really truly be Seller is “as is” no warranties, no repairs, so buyers offers accordingly.
If it’s sale price suggested by the Realtor is wildly different & lower than its tax assessor value, I’d suggest that you get it inspected and appraised. Both done by registered and licensed professionals as selling for under FMV will be an issue for LTC Medicaid should elder run out of $ and end up applying for this Medicaid program to pay for their stay in a NH. Also this program looks at all their finances and if they gifted any $ - like gave some house sale $ to others - they will be penalized.
reverse mortgages are imho smoke and mirrors. $ wise it’s about 45% of value of the house and it is a loan that has 2 be repaid if family should want the property. If the property still has a mortgage on it, that has to be paid off first from the reverse mortgage $ before you can be paid. On the RM the owner still responsible for taxes, repairs and insurance. If they have owned the place forever, their insurance may be outdated. But now it has a new mortgage so all new coverage needed and maybe costly. If insurance, taxes, or repairs not done, the reverse mortgage can be called in, payable in full.
For a HELOC a homeowner will need a credit score and source of income. If old, have no payroll to show. Their SS payments alone may not be high enough to qualify for a HELOC. Heloc is a loan that has to be paid back. And it won’t be a 30 yr like a regular mortgage. But maybe 10 years cause borrower is old so bank wants it paid off before you’re likely to die. If borrowers need all the HELOC $ to pay for a NH, they won’t be able to pay the HELOC and that will be a problem. As the bank will foreclose.
"Oh, but we all grew up there and Daddy wanted us to spend our whole adult lives having vacations there!" or "Mom may be able to go back there someday, so we have to keep it!" Nope. Nope. Nope.
It's your parents' asset, it should pay for their care, and you don't need the hassle of keeping it. Which it will be, since I doubt that your parents are presently up to it if you're thinking about care for them.
This isn't DIY stuff. It makes a huge difference if you get a reverse mortgage in helping pay for inhome help and etc DEPENDENT ON how much the reverse mortgage gives monthly. HOWEVER, most are payable within a few months of exit from home, whether for care in -facility or not, forcing sale of home. AND they add to the monthly income of a senior who may WITHOUT THIS CASH be qualifying for Medicaid. WITH the cash they may not qualify.
For instance:
Myrtle applies for and gets a reverse mortgage loan.
Myrtle gets 700.00 SS a month.
The reverse mortgage gives Myrtle another 2,000 a month.
Now Myrtle falls and breaks her hip and isn't recovering. She must enter care.
Her income now, however is 2,700 a month and she may not qualify for Medicaid help.
There are so many other things to weigh and these are legal matters that are changeable for state you live in and dependent on other assets.
Do see an attorney.
Sell it..
unless for some odd reason you cannot.. or don’t want to.
What type of care is needed? Is it a few hours a day or 24/7 care?
There are programs that can help.
You can check with your local Senior Service Center or local Area Agency on Aging. either might be aware of programs that your parents might be eligible for.
Are either of your parents Veterans? If so the VA may be of big help. And depending on where and when the service was it might be a little help or a LOT! Contact your local Veterans Assistance Commission. The services they provide are free. If they qualify there is Aid and Attendance that will provide some income.
One of the things that might be worth spending some money on is a consultation with an Elder Law Attorney. make sure you have all the paperwork done that you need to have done in order to legally be able to help them and make decisions for them when the time comes.
While wanting to keep them in their house is a great idea it is not always the safest, easiest and least expensive option.
And if and when that money runs out you can apply for Medicaid for them.