Elderly Parents, Poor Decisions. Is this unavoidable?

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Elderly Parents, Poor Decisions. Is this unavoidable?

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My parents, (F - 87, M-81) both still have 95% of their marbles rolling around in their skulls and they both are still vertical (as my father likes to say), but WOW, they are now making HORRIBLE, unsafe choices in their everyday lives! I've seen this exact scenario play out in multiple elderly loved ones (grandmother, aunts, etc.) Is this simply the unavoidable trajectory every person takes when they reach a certain age?

Background - my sister had a MIL, who was otherwise very with it, but would NOT stop climbing on stools, ladders, chairs, etc. She fell and broke bones many, many times but kept doing this, insisting on "reaching that thing on the top shelf" or "changing that light bulb herself!" My grandmother fell multiple times the same way. My aunt fell off a stool several times and got VERY angry if anyone dared to mention taking her stool away. Now my mother recently climbed on a rickety step ladder to change a light bulb, knowing I was coming to her house a few hours later and could have done this for her! Said she didn't want ME climbing!

My father climbed a ladder and got on his roof to spread a tarp over a leak 2 WEEKS after having major back surgery, rather than pay someone to come do "such a simple task."

He can barely walk, yet REFUSES to use a walker or rollater in public. He has congestive heart failure and dumps salt on everything. He says he has stopped adding salt. Now uses lemon pepper. What is the #1 ingredient in lemon pepper? SODIUM! He recently had to spend a few days in the ICU due to his CHF. The reason - he stopped taking his diuretic! Said he was tired of having to get up all night and pee. He almost died. Was hurting in his chest for a week and developed pneumonia, but said he was afraid of covid, so he would not go to the ER. And yet, they REFUSE to stay home with Covid going on. They go out to eat multiple times a week. She goes shopping multiple times a week.

She visits the beauty salon weekly. When I express concerns about the beauty salon she says "Oh, she's CLEAN! She has a clean shop. She doesn't have covid!"

They both drive and neither should. I personally have witnessed my mother take her eyes off the road and BOTH hands off the steering wheel to answer her cell phone when it rings! My dad has poor reflexes and his driving is very jerky and scary!

My mom hoards and their house is an unsafe disaster. She won't let anyone touch anything and gets very combative about it.

What can we possibly do?

Age Related Decline Home Safety Senior Health

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A wise social worker friend told me years ago “events will happen that will make the decisions for you” I had to wait a very long time for the events, but they are inevitable. People age, their bodies and capabilities decline, and rotten things happen. My dad had end stage CHF for years. He wasn’t about to change his diet to accommodate it, he’d much prefer to make jokes and laugh it off, and in truth, who am I to say he was wrong? Your parents will have things happen, falls are coming, and at some point they’ll be forced to make changes. The only thing you need to get forceful about is driving, have their doctor evaluate that and make a recommendation. I wish you well, it’s not fun watching the decline and questionable decision making

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They have multiple family members who are medical professionals who all say let them eat what they want and do what they want because they are past 80.

The problem with this is that falling off a ladder and breaking a hip will then cause a burden on the family members who have to take care of her.

Continuing to eat lots of salt and not take his water pills will result in a hospital stay weakness and inability to get around which will then burden family members who have to take care of him.

I recall my grandmother refusing to use her quad cane and dragging it behind her like a dog on a leash. she was dragging out the day she stumbled over a speed bump in a parking lot and busted her kneecap! This fall resulted in a burden on my mother who had to take care of her all because she refused to use her quad cane.

(11)

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My first response after reading what you wrote was "good for them". They are living their life the way they want to and doing what they want. In the big picture of things, their time here on this earth is limited anyway at their ages, so why not just let them enjoy what little time they have left. I know that if God willing I live to be their ages, I am not going to take kindly to someone trying to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing. Be grateful that they're not like a lot of elderly(and nonelderly) folk that are living their lives in fear over this Covid crap, and refusing to ever leave their homes. That to me is much more dangerous than any virus.

And don't worry, a crisis will probably eventually happen that will force a change in the way things are now, but in the meantime, let your parents live and enjoy their lives.

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"In fear over this Covid crap"--what are you even talking about? People should be afraid. It is well-known that older people are especially at high risk of contracting (and thus potentially spreading) Covid-19. And no, staying home is NOT more dangerous than the virus. Why not refrain from endorsing irresponsible behavior? Not really all that helpful in the midst of a global pandemic.

(5)

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You're right, they are making poor decisions. Unfortuneatly your trying to convince them otherwise won't work. They think they're still 35. One thing that may help is to change all the lights to LEDs. There will be no reason to change a burned out light, the lamps will outlive them both. Your dad reminds me of mine. He was pretty much a tightwad and wouldn't pay for anything that he thought he could do.

Driving is especially a problem. It sounds like they both still have all their faculties and are functioning pretty well. However, age alone reduces one's reaction time, judgment and visual perception. Does the AL facility provide transportation for its residents? You might want to try to sell them on utilizing the facility's transportation as much as possible.

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They are not in assisted living. They live in their own house out in a rural area. 2 years ago my siblings took them around to visit some assisted living facilities, just to have some things in mind. My parents willingly went to do this, but the thought in my mom's head was nothing beyond "this is an activity to enjoy with my kids. I have no intention of EVER moving out of my house!"

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Unless they’ve been professionally assessed, don’t count on them being 95% intact. Doesn’t sound that way from your post.

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You are at the caregiving stage of "waiting for the disaster to happen". As daughteror1930 said "events will happen that will make the decisions for you." My nurse friend who worked with the elderly said "As long as they are competent they are allowed to make their own decisions, even bad ones." So, do what you can make things safe for them but realize that they are likely to undo all your work and ignore your pleas. But the other part of this is drawing hard boundaries on how much you are willing to do for them to keep them in their home. Most of us start out doing small tasks, and then the tasks get bigger and more frequent, until finally, it is a constant to-do list and caregiving role that can't be sustained. The parent thinks they are living "independently" but they are not. DO NOT DO THIS. Learn from my mistakes. Do not put yourself in harm's way during Covid. If they are out and about in the stores, hairdresser, etc let them know that you cannot and will not be helping them or by to see them because you do not want to be infected. Put a little pressure on them in that way. Don't try to convince them that they must keep themselves safe, try to convince them that they must keep you safe. You are at one of the hardest stages in this journey - knowing that the current situation is a disaster waiting to happen, and wondering if each phone call is the disaster.

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I read a lot of comments here that mom or dad doesn’t have dementia but left the stove on, got lost driving and so on.

I think the term is Executive Reasoning. Or lack of. My mom didn’t have dementia, could pass most cognitive tests, knew time, date, place, current events but would fall for phone scams, refused any outside help, would not use her walker and thought dads driving was just fine (OMG!!)

Its that no mans land of legally competent but for all practical matters a train wreck. I traveled that horrible road with my folks for years until the crisis that forced the issue.

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You have described them perfectly. My dad is a deacon at church and frequently leads the Sunday school service. My mother before Covid was very active and several clubs. But as you described she has fallen for several scams. She sends money to almost Any charity which claims to help disabled veterans! She is obviously on the “sucker list” now and you would not believe the number of pieces of junk mail she gets weekly from various “disabled veteran “ charities! My dad complains about her getting into that situation but I cannot tell you how many magazine subscriptions I’ve had to cancel for him as he “somehow unknowingly applied for them. “

(10)

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This is so difficult! Why don't they just do the right thing?? They are doing such risky things and thinking they are totally fine, etc. etc.

IF they really have their marbles, then, I guess you can just kind of throw your hands up and walk away? Sure. How can you do that? Don't ask me cuz I'm in a similar boat. Ready to explode due to my mom not wanting to do what she needs to do to be a success story after her surgery.

I guess the only thing that you might need to intervene in is the driving. It seems like they should not be driving. People are too stubborn for their own good. I guess we can all have an accident at any time. Has your mom always done these poor driving skills and not had an accident? Just dumb luck?

So sorry that you're dealing with so much crap!

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I am so sorry that you are in this situation.

I like to call it stubbornness! My mom was very stubborn when she lived with me. She had to have everything her way.

They feel that they are still the boss and don’t want anyone telling them what is best.

I admire independent thinkers. I really do but when a person reaches a certain age and can no longer be totally independent, they have a responsibility to rely on others for help for all concerned.

As you say, their independent nature wrecks havoc in all of our lives.

The problem is, we can’t force them to comply and do what is best for everyone.

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My cousin's sister Bernie was the worst of the worst when it came to making Bad Decisions. She was 81 years old and still insisted on........WASHING HER FEET IN THE SINK every night!!!! Yup. Picture this: teetering on one leg, she'd lift the other leg up, grab her foot and stick it in the sink! Scrub it with soap and water, rinse, and repeat with the other foot. The very thought of me trying to do that at 63 turns my hair even grayer.

No amount of reasoning, talking, bribing, cajoling on earth could talk Bernie out of washing her feet in the sink every night.

After she fell and broke her arm in 3 places one night after washing her feet in the sink, she proceeded to go downhill very quickly and passed away a month later.

Moral of the story: you can't save a person from herself. Sad but true.

Xena...climbing a ladder to spread a tarp on the ROOF 2 weeks after having major back surgery makes Bernie's story look like a fairy tale.

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I was reading the responses to this post and found yours, I have to say not everyone at 63 is necessarily "old". I'm 60 was a caregiver for 8 years, have been "free" so to speak for a year now, I lift weights, real weight, and I work eight acres, currently clear cutting five acres of woods and tree down fall with a chain saw and hedge trimmer on my own, I burn massive brush piles twice the size of my truck, no help, everybody knows I do this work, they drive by and stop to visit with me, my kids know and watch me work, how your body ages depends on how you live your life, keeping moving is what I say. Oh and foot washing is best done in the tub lol.

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Xenajada, it sounds as though driving may be the key issue here, just because they “live in their own house out in a rural area”. Without a car, they’re stuck (personal experience here). Look up D for Driving on Care Topics (top right of screen) for lots of views and tricks, and think it through.

The second issue is your concern that this will end up in “a burden on the family members who have to take care of her”. Can you get a conversation going with the medicos in your family, as to who will do what when the inevitable does happen? Can you be clear now that you are not going to be the bunny who has to swallow the whole carrot? It’s nice for them to think of your parents being free and easy to do what they want, but people can change their attitude if they look at the potential impact on themselves. Don’t swallow “we’ll deal with that when it happens”, if you suspect that you are option number one in their minds. Lealonnie’s Bernie conveniently? died a month after her crisis event, but it doesn’t always happen that way.

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I agree, but I'm particularly bothered by the fact that XenaJada's mother drives without hands on the wheel to answer the phone--this is dangerous behaviour for ANYONE of ANY age! Perhaps a threat could be made that if she refuses to quit doing this, a call will be made to authorities to evaluate her driving ability (perhaps a good thing in any case, but especially with this deliberate disregard for safety).

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When my accountant mom, who was a wiz at math, got Alzheimer's, her ability to write checks went out the window. I found her deposit slips in the garbage. The government has a system of checks and balances, but I say, check your parents' balances in their bank accounts, lest they write inappropriate checks, like to scamsters, or for things that they don't need, or to people they don't know, etc. Luckily, I was able to head this off at the pass, but not everyone is so lucky. I know you didn't address this specific issue in your post, but it goes along with poor decision making skills.
I even wrote a book about my husband and I taking care of my mom called, "My Mother Has Alzheimer's and My Dog Has Tapeworms: A Caregiver's Tale." I tried to write it with humor and heart, since you need both, when dealing with Alzheimer's.

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First answer to this is what you are referring to are life habits, especially if you've lived in the same house for several years and it's a small house, you store your stuff high in closets, on the tops shelves, in the attic, etc... on shelving in the garage. And with dad getting on the roof, he's probably done it many many times over the years, the old saying "old habits die hard". There's also a pride factor of not wanting to ask for help, and from what I've seen usually help is not readily available and people don't want to wait a week to get the vegetable oil off the top shelf in the kitchen just so they can fix one dinner or get the antenna on the roof moved, they also don't want to hear that someone has complained they had to help them.

Through my caregiving experience I took consideration of how my parent would feel about day to day life and getting through each day, and how I would feel in the same position because most of us will be some day, and I offered the help before it was needed. A critical thinker will evaluate their storage needs to get what they need regularly on a lower level, maybe see if they'd like to donate some things they're not using since a lot of families now are having a hard time do to this pandemic and don't have funds to even take care of Christmas for their kids, that may be a motivator to declutter, if not come spring maybe a garage sale would be a motivator to clear some things out and get storage on lower ground. Also ladies and their hairdresser and dads and their barbers it can be like family, I'd leave that alone. I would address all issues with them respectfully and with great forethought. Seniors are wise(r) whether you want to admit that or not, they've seen far more than we have, I have seen many family members over the years sit, watch, listen and calculate, they simply are evaluating whether the other person in the room or the topic is worth the extra effort, don't ever make assumptions on any seniors, everyone's life experience is different just because you reach a certain age does not mean you are unaware, money gets tight sometimes, and some things are sentimental and sometimes it just hurts to move simple as that.

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This is the best post! I was looking for someone to see the other side of the story. It is not so easy to age. No one has offered to drive the ten miles to the grocery store for me . nor has my child that lives across the road offered to spend ten minutes to adjust my toilet so it flushes properly. I just get told to call a plumber. Is it like money grows on trees? Think what it costs to live 20 or so years without a paycheck! Social Security checks are a drop in the bucket but still grateful to get one.
Savings can deplete pretty quickly especially with inflation. My deceased FIL used to say, " You don't know how much it will cost to get out of this world." Therefore we need to be careful with our savings. I had to get elderly to understand my parents that I GOT to help in their final years. No quilt here.

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I feel for you, my sister and I are in a similar situation (except the driving thankfully) but as long as they have their faculties there is not much to do but offer help. My sister was given access to their medical portal and email - so we can keep up with some things. Overtime we think they will come around to small offers of help. My dad finally got a shower chair after almost dropping mom. Sad that it has to be this way.

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I put in cabinet pull out shelves in all of the below kitchen counter cabinets and moved the dishes and glasses from the upper cabinets to down below the counter to stop my mom from getting on a step stool to grab plates etc. that has helped. The upper cabinets now hold seldom used items. What I’m saying is that I try and control the environment as much as possible. Grab bars outside and inside the shower etc

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My siblings and I went down this road this year. My mother has dementia, my dad is forgetful but still cognizant. Their house was dreadful. In addition, my mom wasn't eating enough so she lost quite a bit of weight. It was awful.

We begged them to hire a housekeeper. At first, my dad agreed, but did nothing. We tried to get them to hire home health to come in once or twice a week, they refused. Then, the nasty emails started. It was awful, but not unexpected. There was nothing we could do except wait for a life changing event.

The event that changed everything was a broken leg. We spent several weeks getting them set up with home health (required by their doctors) and housekeeping. It took 3 days to dig them out of the mess in the house. Repairs were made, laundry was done. They now have 24/7 home care. They do not want to move, none of us live nearby.

And the driving. Their vehicle had scratches and dents, there were a couple of near misses and a mishap with the car and a stationary object (I guess the object got in the way). The doctor was the one who finally suspended my dad's license. In our state, you can make a request for the DMV to retest an unsafe driver. Document the unsafe driving incidents.

Our hands were tied. It's been a really rough year for all of us. We've done our best to help them, but they want the past to be the present and we can't give them that.

Enlist the help of their doctor if you can. Their will and other legal documents should be in order. If you or your siblings need to step in, you can pay their bills, speak with their doctor and help with any decision-making. If you can avoid having to seek conservatorship if anything bad happens, do. Our parents kept all that information a secret from us. Luckily, we didn't need to worry.

Stay strong. Know that you're not alone. So many of us have gone down this road and it's uncharted territory for each of us. And it's not easy. Please don't forget to take care of yourself during this time.

I'm going to look for the book suggested in an earlier post. Humor does help with the stress.

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If they have their Marbles as you put it, Do Nothing as there isn't anything you can do anyway.
Just be the daughter, not the parent and don't spend your time arguing or trying to change them because it's not going to happen.
Love them and let them know your available for whatever they need.

Thence try to relax and let them live their life happily as they can without having their loving daughter nag at them.

Hopefully, they will learn from their mistakes.

In the meantime, if you see a wiggly ladder, replace it. If you see a better stepping stool maybe with handles buy it and give it as a Xmas Gift. Just do what you can.

Life is short and you and you need to accept that we all do things our own way.

Just Love them while they are alive.

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As the daughter who said “I’ll be there when you need me” when my parents refused my suggestions, I ended up almost losing my job (I am single) because of all the frantic emergency calls for help that required me to leave work. I almost lost my mental health from the never-ending crises. I risked my physical health by having to respond to a crisis while I was still somewhat under the effects of anesthesia from a medical procedure. I don’t agree with the “let them live their lives how they want”, if it means that eventually it will make the caregiving child’s life hell.

(11)

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I can relate. I tried for 2 years to tell my parents they needed more help, their house wasn’t safe, they weren’t eating well, they weren’t cleaning well, their behavior wasn’t safe, dad was wasting money writing checks to every charity and buying subscriptions to every magazine. Fell on deaf ears. 18 months ago they finally agreed to a monthly housecleaning. A panicked phone call in April 2019 saying my dad didn’t remember how to file taxes was when they agreed for me to handle their finances. 6 months later, a crisis with my daughter’s health meant I had to leave the state for a week and scramble to find someone to check on them daily. I wrote a 4 page letter to them on the plane explaining why they should move to AL. They read it...multiple times...apologized profusely...and then refused to move after I’d made all the arrangements. Mom started falling and they finally allowed me to put grab bars in the bathroom and remove their wobbly glass-topped coffee table. A few months later I got a call from the police department of a town 20 miles away that my father had driven there and didn’t know where he was or how to get home. So they finally agreed to 12 hrs a week of in-home help so that they wouldn’t need to get out in the car without me. After a month, they were both hospitalized twice within a 4 week period and I had to ramp up to 24/7 care with 2 hrs notice. When I got the first bill and realized it would cost $20,000/month to allow them to safely remain in their home with 24/7 care (when mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, home maintenance, food factored in) I finally said NO MORE. As a single woman, trying to keep my full-time job while dealing with all this stress on my own (yes, like most other people on here I have siblings who do nothing), I couldn’t do it anymore. Got the PoA in effect and moved them without any further justification or discussion into MM together. My mom complains. My dad is relieved. My life is much improved, though I’m now spending most of my free time cleaning out their house, managing their mail, money, etc. I’m angry at their refusal to take steps years ago that could have prevented these crises...or at least mitigated them to some degree. But yes, you will finally reach that “point of no return” where there are no longer any other options. I have vowed I WILL NOT DO THIS TO MY KIDS. They’re only in their 20’s, but I’ve written them all a letter that says what signs to look for that my life is starting to become unmanageable by me alone. And to talk to me BEFORE it reaches crisis proportions about what needs to be done. And if I refuse to listen, then to take out my letter and show it to me and remind me of what I don’t want to put them through. And hopefully I will still be cogent enough to comply with their suggestions of how to move forward safely and logically. What you are experiencing is the tip of the iceberg and you need to try as hard as you can to get them to see what lies down the road and convince them to get into a safe situation ASAP.

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Susan, your story is much like my own. Years of trying to get parents to allow help at home, the battle to get them in assisted living and on and on......Mom died 2 years ago, dad died this September. Now I’m going through probate. Never ends.

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First things first - if their driving is a hazard to other people that's the first thing that needs to stop. Just because they are at their end of life doesn't mean they get to end lives. We had a friend in elementary school who was killed in the crosswalk by an elderly driver who never even slowed down. Another case was a girl was pinned to the wall and killed a few feet from my place of employment at the mall, she was outside on her break and an elderly driver put her car in drive instead of reverse. There was a department store there with a cafe' and salon and many women seemed to make an occupation out of going there and spending money, including when they were no longer competent to safely drive or manage their own spending. I've been rear ended twice also by people who shouldn't have been on the road, once an elderly driver, once a narcoleptic, in both cases people who should have had their licenses pulled or maybe already had and were driving against the law. The narcoleptic was a repeat offender I know from the court case, I don't know about the lady who mowed over our friend. I developed a lifelong autoimmune neurological condition triggered by the damage to the spinal cord from the whiplash of one of the accidents, which took 2 yrs of chiro paid by their insurance to try to improve. The condition cost me my marriage, my option to parent, my career, my ability to make decent money, my life opportunities, etc. If neither of your parents is safe to drive, then maybe report it to the Dept of Licensing? Not sure what the protocol is in your area. Some areas make all people retake their drivers test after a certain age. If the notice shows up in the mail as a "routine" thing they have to do, then it's not on you. You can also report it to their doctor in writing, maybe an email, that way you have a date, or registered mail, so you have legal proof it was received. If a doctor receives notice that one of their patients may not be safe to drive I think legally they are required to do an assessment or report to the DOL. Make sure you have other transportation arranged already - find out if there's a senior van service in your area etc. and if there is not, get familiar with Uber etc and maybe there will be a few drivers in the area who can start being your parents' drivers.
If you have to, take the batteries out of their cars, or something. Disconnect a cable, etc.

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My mother was an invalid from age 52. She died at 85. My father was her caretaker until age 80 when we together remodeled a house to live together. As a nurse, I worked weekends. Also, homeschooled our son.

My husband received a few calls in the night to pick up Mom who had talked in the floor. Living only 10 min from them was too far at 2am. When we moved in together, we put a nursery monitor in their room so they could get our attention when needed overnight.

Though the move together was an effort to help my dad care for mom, it gave us a “front row seat” into his poor choices. We had 2 bathroom sink overflows. He always plugged the sink to do hygiene care but, without his hearing aids, he couldn’t hear the water running. What a mess!

While we were on vacation, my brother noted a Western Union receipt in his desk. ??? As a business owner, he NEVER in his life needed Western Union. He sought every “get rich quick” scheme out there. A foreign lottery had him sending cash to them in Vancouver to release the $ coming to him. He was acting like an adolescent with his cell phone running up extra charges for the first time ever. Talking secretively. We think it was about $3000 he lost. Though my mother’s body didn’t work well, she was generally a clear thinker. When we explain the situation to her, sh said to “stop him”. We blocked his car with ours so he couldn’t go to Western Union. He was so angry. “Get out of my business!!!” Mission accomplished though.

Once my mom had to have skilled nursing care (I herniated a disc getting her to/from her bedside potty and could not care for her any longer), my dad’s driving became an issue. He scraped the passenger side door on a fence post leaving our yard. Then, brought home (!!!!) a man he met in the Kroger parking lot who offered to fix it!!! As expected, a crappy fix but dad was happy because he saved $. One day, I followed him home from the nursing home. He was all over the 4 lane road!!! Dad had horrible back pain and was addicted to oxycodone. Upon arriving at home, I took away his car keys. He was angry. Upon his military retirement, he was chief of the motor pool at Ft. Hood. I promised to drive him twice/day to see mom.

All sad but we’re we not living together at the time, most would have gone unnoticed. He could have killed someone with his car. Caregiving is so very important. Even when a loving relationship is maintained, it is not easy!!!

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Driving is definitely a problem, ditto for climbing and hoarding. However, people who are in their eighties and older and still want to have a somewhat normal life should be able to go out and do things if that is what they want. I understand COVID is worse for older folks, but so is being shut up all the time. Nobody lives forever, and at some point people need to stop being afraid to just live their lives as they choose for whatever time they have left. This applies to what and how they eat, too. Eating may be one of the few pleasures an elderly person has left, so eat all the junk you want. If it shortens your life by a few months or years, so be it.

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While I totally agree with you on the enjoyment over living a few extra months, excessive salt for a CHF patient falls into a different category for me. They are beyond balancing enjoyment with what they are doing long term to their body when it ones to salt. It can mean shortening life by far more than a few months and more significant the pain and suffering of not being able to breath, drowning in your own fluids not to mention how quickly a CHF patient can go from walking around to needing a hospital is not worth it.

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Lordy, sounds like my grandparents. Grandma bragged to me about how she had figured out how to get around her house holding on to door knobs and furniture so she wouldn’t have to use "that damned contraption."

Grandpa slipped and broke his arm going out to get the mail because he "didn’t want to bother" any of his 19 grandchildren by asking for help.

I think it is so very hard for a older people to show weakness by asking for help. Or maybe it's the expense?

I am 66 and always want to try to do it myself because then I know it will be done right, or at least if I screw it up I have only myself to blame. I have been seeking, and paying, for help with outside chores now. Yes, it comes at a cost, but so does a broken hip!

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My Mom is an 83 year old widow. We've begged her for months to use the really nice walker we got for her. She refused & fell HARD one night. She ended up with 6 fractures! Now, her walker is her best friend. She likes to thinks she's independant, but can't clean her house, cook, take care of yard, etc. She thinks she drives all over, however, the car won't start due to lack of ignition chip! We've tried to get some inhome care for her, suggested senior living homes, even moving into my sister and bro in law's home. (She refuses.) This is all putting a tough burden on my sis & I who work full time. Someone said it best, that we are waiting for the diasaster to happen. Very tough to wait on & can't do much about.

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This is a disaster. The climbing thing is really hard to stop because they would have to admit they have lost one more activity they always did. Have said it before, but my grandmother would never admit she needed help with anything. Her neighbors called one day to say she was on her roof sweeping pine needles. I went there and talked to her. She was mad they tattled on her, but after I explained that a fall could possibly leave her in a bed in a nursing home, she agreed to let me take her ladder. Her saying was that she wanted to 'wear out, not rust out' and was on the move all the time. She even gave up driving on her own when she scared herself by pulling out in front of a logging truck.

Since they still have their marbles, have the chat with them. Take the step stools and all ladders away from the house. Tell them they still have a choice. Live at home with safer activities or end up in a facility. Bring up all the past health issues and the current covid problem. I know dad hates being up all night to pee, but it's better than being hooked up to a ventilator when he becomes septic and unable to breathe on his own.

I feel for you! It's hard to see them decline and even harder for them to accept it. Perhaps more visits to handle the visits or observation of what is going on. You, friends, handy man that you can say is a friend of yours to drop by several times a month.

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Stop being afraid of your parents. It’s OK to say no! Especially if their actions are putting other people at risk. Call the police and report them as unsafe drivers, then if they lose their licenses they can blame the police.

If possible work with them to rearrange their cupboards, as suggested in another post, so the most commonly used items are down low. Do it gradually so they can learn the new locations.

Don't make demands, ask them their opinions on how to solve the problem, that you are worried and want to help. go slowly, if like my parents, they have lived in the same home for 50+ years change is very hard.

I recall a method of dealing with a balky child. Ask "do you want to wear the red coat or the blue coat?" One way or the other the child is going to wear a coat, but at least they get to choose the color!

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First of all, seek out an eldercare attorney and get a Power of Attorney so you can start handling some decisions. Second, after a good medical and mental check, I would have a doctor impress upon them what is going on and that it has to stop. You can be there and agree with the doctor. I don't know that it will do much good but this is where you have to step up to the plate and tell them in no uncertain terms what the new rules will be. Caretakers, or helpers, or whatever - with their full cooperation - and if they do not cooperate, you will take appropriate action which I feel boils down to two options. You somehow get them placed into a facility for their safety. Or, you can tell them if they don't cooperate, and something happens, they have made their beds and now let them lie in them - and be prepared to walk away. I don't see any other ways to help.

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They're doing it THEIR way (think Frank Sinatra MY way song); we ALL value our independence, it's all we've got left sometimes as we get older. ALthough one would hope some common sense would factor in. I've been in the field and seen lots over the years...sometimes families intervene...they will lock the door to the basement so the elder can't do the steps or fall down them....Hoarding is a nightmare regardless of age. Safety issues do come into play as if the fire dept has to gain entry and there is no easy clear exit path...it's bad for them as well. I'm not sure if Adult Protective Services would be of any help or not....but clearly very unsafe with driving and using a cell phone. The beauty salon would be the least of my concerns as one would hope to remain open the owner would be taking adequate precautions and requiring masks. As far as dad and his meds...I'd be discussing this MD, seeing if there might be away to adjust dose OR timing. The MD's so often throw Rx at people without considering at all the impact on life. Running to the bathroom at night also increases fall risk...which can also result in being in the hospital. These days the only decent thing to come out of COVID is that so many restaurants now offer delivery. I'd check in with their favorites and arrange (hopefully using your parent's funds) for gift cards or whatever to the places they frequent or to a delivery service so what they want can be brought to the home instead of them going to eat out...or bank on the fact that the majority of people don't want to eat out now so they are probably in a near empty dining room where they are hopefully taking distancing and disinfecting precautions. Then sit back and know you have done all you can and you cannot control others...

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This is fairly common, and you have to balance between letting them be as independent as possible as they get older, and also keeping them safe. What you are calling horribly unsafe choices are things I see younger people do, too, and we don't think they are not able to care for themselves. Do what you can in a helpful way. If your mother's ladder is rickety, can you get her a sturdy stepstool with a grab bar? Throw away anything rickety. Can you go through the house with her and come up with ways to make it safer? Can you help her clean out the clutter? Get them Mrs. Dash to replace the lemon salt. Hopefully they'll accept these suggestions. Ask the doctors to explain the consequences to your parents of eating salt, not taking diuetics, being active too soon after back surgery, etc. Many times I feel that doctors don't talk to their patients enough on best practices after surgery or with chronic conditions. Do your parents seem like they are understanding and remembering what they are told by their doctors? If not, you have to deal with it differently. Make sure that all their paperwork is in order: powers of attorney (POA) for medical decisions and financial decisions, living will, banks sometimes have their own POA forms, will, etc. Make sure you know their wishes for medical care. Talk to your parents about how they want to live as they become less capable of taking care of themselves. The choices are essentially having aides come to their home to take care of them or moving to an assisted living facility. Regarding eating out, shopping and going to the beauty salon - get them N95 (or KN95) mask and even suggest 2 masks while they are doing these things. She should ask to have a window open, if that is possible. Indoor spaces with poor ventiallation are higher risk. Right now, with the pandemic raging, the guidance in my state are to only do essential errands, not to travel, and not to have indoor gatherings. Not all states are this cautious.

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OK, OK, OK. I won't do it again.
Hee hee.
Here I am 78 and partner is 80. Living alone. And I admit, there are POOR decisions and I have/he has made more than one. Not bothering to bring up the stepladder for the change of battery in the sqawking fire alarm device, putting up christmas lights in the window. Just thinking "Oh, I will be OK! I don't want to haul up the stepladder; I can use the step stool".
It is stupid, and I can tell you for most of us we KNOW that when we do it. We had a house in the country and what we loved about it was the weed whipping, the wood chopping. Sold it last year because we knew we were not making good decisions. I did mistletoe removal and was SOOOO careful I thought, but one leg of the ladder sunk into a gopher hole and down I went, still hanging on to the tree. When we are old, the ligaments and muscles just don't flex. It took a long time to heal my shoulder. My doctor scolded me telling me I was very healthy, so a few more moves like that, endangering myself with paraplegia, and she would visit me for decades while I languished in care.
I don't know what to say about this. The elder thinks "I will be careful; it will be fine" all the while knowing ABSOLUTELY KNOWING that when we go down at some point, things are gonna bust.
I am so sorry for your worry. Perhaps try that. "Please don't make me worry for you this way; I love you. I need you well. I know how you would hate being debilitated and I would hate it for you. I know you know better. Please listen to your better angels."

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2 questions I ask myself when caring for my mom - who is mostly with it and lives 1 hour away in her own condo:

#1 - Is she safe?
Is there anything she does or neglects to do that makes her a danger to herself or others? Is the house safe? Is her driving safe? This one is usually the first safety issue to address - and use the police if you must to take away a driver's license.

#2 - Is she healthy?
Does she take care of herself and her home so it doesn't pose a health threat? (Sorry, old person odors don't necessarily count.) Does she take her medications safely? Does she get to the doctor and dentist... and follow their advice?

If you can say yes and site several examples of why it is "Yes!!!!," then your older family member probably has dementia. Alzheimer's dementia, aka senile dementia, is found in 75% of seniors 75 years old.... and the likelihood of developing it goes up with age. Memory loss is not the first symptoms of this disease; it's poor decision-making. Unfortunately, the person who has Alzheimer's disease is unaware that he/she is making poor decisions and will probably be feisty about this. As the family member, it is up to you to get those seniors to their doctors and/or neurologists so that diagnosis is made. In the early stages, medications can help improve their mental abilities.

Hoarding is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder. Securing a psychiatrist who treats patients with this disorder is probably the first step. Getting your parent(s) to meet with this doctor consistently is the second step.

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Taarna, where did you get your statistic that “Alzheimer's dementia, aka senile dementia, is found in 75% of seniors 75 years old”? At age 73, I’d love to know where this came from.

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From the ladders, stools and salt - I have lived your life.

I was once told by a medical professional “Let them live before they die”.

I’m also going to tell you NOTHING is going to change except your anger and frustration.

Even with my mom in a NH she still was trying to get up on her own. Assisted Living is no different. There is no 24 hour babysitter.

Repeating yourself and showing anger will bring you regret when they’re gone.

I was was also told that these behaviors are a natural part of elderly dementia.

You are in for a long ride.

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So you basically answered my first question,

"Is this simply the unavoidable trajectory every person takes when they reach a certain age?"

Sadly the answer is yes. I've seen it play out so many times with my own relatives, friends' parents, and now my own parents.

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Elderly Parents, Poor Decisions. Is this unavoidable?

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